tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post4298778719249628603..comments2024-03-17T03:16:44.995-04:00Comments on BigCityLib Strikes Back: Stephen Harper: I Am Not A Climate Crookbigcitylibhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05081538803991095825noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-19443323950840693242007-12-06T13:20:00.000-05:002007-12-06T13:20:00.000-05:00"In other words, you were lying."More like exagger..."In other words, you were lying."<BR/><BR/>More like exaggerating. But if China agreed to a binding emissions target then Harper would accept one (or else he's a total hypocrite which I'll admit could still be a possibility) and then all the environmentalists who in the article BCL linked to claiming that the Canada is being obstructionist are also lying.<BR/><BR/>Anyways, it's been a fun thread.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-87351312332481675402007-12-06T13:06:00.000-05:002007-12-06T13:06:00.000-05:00You've gone from asserting that environmental grou...You've gone from asserting that environmental groups are "dead-set against emission reductions" for China to, asserting that they're not "articulating their position clearly".<BR/><BR/>In other words, you were lying. And such a transparent lie you clung to - We can all imagine what would happen if China offered to reduce their emissions:<BR/><BR/>China: We'd live to reduce our emissions.<BR/><BR/>Suzuki: Well, I'm dead-set against that.<BR/><BR/>Ha ha ha ha!Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-60253082865796485342007-12-06T12:11:00.000-05:002007-12-06T12:11:00.000-05:00"Harper's excuse is irrelevant - Suzuki isn't requ..."Harper's excuse is irrelevant - Suzuki isn't required to accept it."<BR/><BR/>You're right, he doesn't have to accept his excuse. But he still needs to address it if he is to clearly articulate his position. The PM gave his reason for abandoning an emissions target and all we get from the David Suzuki Foundation is a criticism of the action and not the PM's justification. <BR/><BR/>If the PM's justification is crap, let's hear the David Suzuki Foundation tell us why they think it's crap. If they don't, and the Conservatives learned this the hard way on this issue, the opposition fills in the blanks for them. <BR/><BR/>I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Let's hope they do better in Bali.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-22825592036803450902007-12-06T11:28:00.000-05:002007-12-06T11:28:00.000-05:00anony,"All of those pre-industrialization ppms you...anony,<BR/>"All of those pre-industrialization ppms you're quoting are from manipulated data sets."<BR/><BR/>Nice try, but some junk written up in a fascist rag doesn't cut it.<BR/><BR/>"The David Suzuki Foundation has outright condemned Harper's stance that India should have a binding emissions,"<BR/><BR/>Suzuki has condemned Harper's refusal to commit CANADA to binding emissions, liar. Harper's excuse is irrelevant - Suzuki isn't required to accept it. If Harper said he wasn't committing to binding targets unless you stopped diddling kids, would you infer that <BR/>Suzuki was against you stopping your kid-diddling?Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-74463004090968879972007-12-06T10:40:00.000-05:002007-12-06T10:40:00.000-05:00"It's your assertion to prove, liar"Much like BCL'..."It's your assertion to prove, liar"<BR/><BR/>Much like BCL's initial assertion that Canada is obstructing Bali is his to prove. I've 'proved' my allegation to the same extent he has.<BR/><BR/>BTW, Lenny. While you were calling me 'hilarious' for claiming that China might accept a binding emissions target, you may have noticed that the Chinese delegation used the term "commitments" for the first time in climate change. Did China just begin to move despite Canada not meeting it's Kyoto commitments? Yes, I think it did. You can stop protecting their interests now.<BR/><BR/>"Without a statement from you condemning pedophilia, what else am I supposed to infer, except that you're a pedophile?"<BR/><BR/>That's a neat trick. However, I've never made a statement about pedophilia (nice sensationalism BTW). The David Suzuki Foundation has outright condemned Harper's stance that India should have a binding emissions, arguing we should take a leadership role. They have actually made a position I can interpret and are lobbying for a particular environmental policy. You are free to disagree with my interpretation (like I did BCL's initial statement) but it doesn't make me a liar.<BR/><BR/>What would have forced me to retract my statement is if you had provided a link where the David Suzuki Foundation explicitly called for major emitters in developing countries to have emissions caps. Why didn't you? Because you know that such a statement does not exist. <BR/><BR/>"Stupid anonymous, you do not need an account to post here, just select a nickname and give yourself a name like "another rightwing dimwit who cannot face reality and shows his ignorance of science every time he parrots some lying denialist's lame arguments.""<BR/><BR/>I never once posted on this thread that I think Canada should not act on climate change. My whole argument is that Canada should not be signing international agreements in which the major emitters in the developing world do not have to act because they need to be part of the solution to avoid catastrophic climate change. <BR/><BR/>And if Harper's position is so wrong and destructive, then surely the opposition parties will unite to bring this terrible government down. (Insert raucous laughter here)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-91863660890046795232007-12-06T10:34:00.000-05:002007-12-06T10:34:00.000-05:00All of those pre-industrialization ppms you're quo...All of those pre-industrialization ppms you're quoting are from manipulated data sets. They are false. If you compare to false data, you make bad decisions. That is what has happened here. <BR/><BR/>See Jaworowski, Beck 2007, Friedli 1986, Neftel 1985, Friis-Christensen and Lassen 1991. <BR/><BR/>Repeat after me: <BR/><BR/>"CO2 is NOT linked to temperature changes."<BR/><BR/>"AGW is a money sucking socialist scheme."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-77230114855800869572007-12-05T20:23:00.000-05:002007-12-05T20:23:00.000-05:00"I know, it's such an obvious lie to disprove that..."I know, it's such an obvious lie to disprove that you haven't even linked to anything that says they are explicitly demanding emissions caps for large emitters in developing countries."<BR/><BR/>It's your assertion to prove, liar:<BR/><BR/>"What's hilarious is the environmental groups who, by condemning Harper's position, reveal that they are dead-set against emission reductions for a country who, if not already the world's largest GHG emitter will be shortly."<BR/><BR/>"Without that statement what else am I supposed to infer when they criticize our government for not agreeing to binding targets because it does not include targets for other large GHG emitters?"<BR/><BR/>Without a statement from you condemning pedophilia, what else am I supposed to infer, except that you're a pedophile?Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-49762549436670991612007-12-05T19:37:00.000-05:002007-12-05T19:37:00.000-05:00"The Suzuki Foundation is against emissions caps f..."The Suzuki Foundation is against emissions caps for large countries? Stop lying."<BR/><BR/>I know, it's such an obvious lie to disprove that you haven't even linked to anything that says they are explicitly demanding emissions caps for large emitters in developing countries. I wonder why that is?<BR/><BR/>Without that statement what else am I supposed to infer when they criticize our government for not agreeing to binding targets because it does not include targets for other large GHG emitters? If they support binding targets for India, shouldn't they argue that they also want Indian emissions capped but feel Canada needs to sign onto a binding emissions cap nonetheless? <BR/><BR/>However, we both know that's not the statement they made now is it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-89272054493437240752007-12-05T18:56:00.000-05:002007-12-05T18:56:00.000-05:00"I think the David Suzuki Foundation counts as an ..."I think the David Suzuki Foundation counts as an environmentalist group, no?"<BR/><BR/>The Suzuki Foundation is against emissions caps for large countries? Stop lying.<BR/><BR/><BR/>"It's not my statement..."<BR/><BR/>But then, you're an established liar.Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-14248562945234533562007-12-05T18:09:00.000-05:002007-12-05T18:09:00.000-05:00"Yeah. Wouldn't want to leave any traces that coul..."Yeah. Wouldn't want to leave any traces that could lead back to John Baird's office (or Exxon), would we?"<BR/><BR/>Please, we're Imperial Oil in Canada ... oops.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-20761886153652515832007-12-05T18:07:00.000-05:002007-12-05T18:07:00.000-05:00Or I could get an account. But since I choose not ...<I>Or I could get an account. But since I choose not to...</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah. Wouldn't want to leave any traces that could lead back to John Baird's office (or Exxon), would we?<BR/><BR/>I'm only half joking, by the way.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-33660016717588441812007-12-05T17:36:00.000-05:002007-12-05T17:36:00.000-05:00"I don't know that."Well, I guess you could just t..."I don't know that."<BR/><BR/>Well, I guess you could just take me at my word. Or I could get an account. But since I choose not to, I'm prepared to accept that some comments by others may be attributed to me. Such is life and all that.<BR/><BR/>I just thought I'd stop by for a good debate, posters on this blog usually deliver (either in debate, entertaining insults, or both).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-19568785726929551892007-12-05T17:25:00.000-05:002007-12-05T17:25:00.000-05:00That wasn't me. I'm 1:14 pm and 4:55 pm.I don't kn...<I>That wasn't me. I'm 1:14 pm and 4:55 pm.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know that.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-58734990822155927132007-12-05T17:01:00.000-05:002007-12-05T17:01:00.000-05:00"Name one, liar."I think the David Suzuki Foundati..."Name one, liar."<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.davidsuzuki.org/Bali_Blog/DSF2_11260702.asp" REL="nofollow">I think the David Suzuki Foundation counts as an environmentalist group, no?</A><BR/><BR/>Or are you going to argue that they didn't get the nuance in Harper's position that he blocked the word binding because it didn't include India?<BR/><BR/>"Hard to buy a "morality-based argument" when you don't have any, isn't it?"<BR/><BR/>I think you'll have a hard time trying to win over Canadians that we should reduce our per capita emissions down to China's level. It's more about being practical than moral. I think we'd have more luck getting a deal arguing that both countries should have emissions caps and set China's higher than current emissions but less than business as usual and set ours lower. That would at least take into consideration some of the moral concerns.<BR/><BR/>"Tough shit, anonycoward. You own it."<BR/><BR/>LOL. Coming from some dude on the net simply called "lenny". It's not my statement but I don't really care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-53149671022928992122007-12-05T16:36:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:36:00.000-05:00"That wasn't me. I'm 1:14 pm and 4:55 pm. I do try..."That wasn't me. I'm 1:14 pm and 4:55 pm. I do try to keep it cordial. Just because I disagree with you is no reason to get nasty."<BR/><BR/>Tough shit, anonycoward. You own it.Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-84610901163889558002007-12-05T16:34:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:34:00.000-05:00"What's hilarious is the environmental groups who,..."What's hilarious is the environmental groups who, by condemning Harper's position, reveal that they are dead-set against emission reductions for a country who, if not already the world's largest GHG emitter will be shortly."<BR/><BR/>Name one, liar.<BR/><BR/>"I also don't buy your morality-based arguments with respect to China. You mention per capita emissions like the West has some sort of moral responsibility for the fact there are over 1 billion people in China."<BR/><BR/>I see. So, Luxembourg should be entitled to emit as much as the U.S.? After all, what "moral responsibility" does Luxembourg have for the fact that there are over 300 million people in the U.S.? Each of those Chinese people is entitled to produce less GHGs than you because you happen to live in a country with a lower population? Hard to buy a "morality-based argument" when you don't have any, isn't it?<BR/>p.s. when are you going to back up you bullshit @1:37, anonytard?Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-73454366032314441372007-12-05T16:28:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:28:00.000-05:00"Why would I want to have a "debate" with anyone w..."Why would I want to have a "debate" with anyone who pulls statistics out of thin air, like you did at 1:37 PM."<BR/><BR/>That wasn't me. I'm 1:14 pm and 4:55 pm. I do try to keep it cordial. Just because I disagree with you is no reason to get nasty.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-69000103172592537402007-12-05T16:18:00.000-05:002007-12-05T16:18:00.000-05:00LOL. Yeah, heaven forbid that we actually debate w...<I>LOL. Yeah, heaven forbid that we actually debate what's happening in reality, Ti-guy.</I><BR/><BR/>Why would I want to have a "debate" with anyone who pulls statistics out of thin air, like you did at 1:37 PM.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-85122849826061157682007-12-05T15:55:00.000-05:002007-12-05T15:55:00.000-05:00"By the way, I love how some people (anony @ 1:14 ..."By the way, I love how some people (anony @ 1:14 PM) never tire of simply repeating the Harperite position as if it's an argument that becomes more compelling with each reiteration."<BR/><BR/>LOL. Yeah, heaven forbid that we actually debate what's happening in reality, Ti-guy. But really, why do you think China should be allowed to have unfettered growth in CO2 emissions while we don't? It's alright to take that position but it should probably be justified by more than ramblings about a Bush-Harper neocon conspiracy.<BR/><BR/>"It's not a moot point. You think we can demand that China caps it's emissions while we refuse to even reduce ours to levels that are still multiples of of the Chinese? You're hilarious."<BR/><BR/>What's hilarious is the environmental groups who, by condemning Harper's position, reveal that they are dead-set against emission reductions for a country who, if not already the world's largest GHG emitter will be shortly. A country's whose economy is growing at a rate of roughly 10% a year and is overwhelmingly powered by fossil fuels. What's pro-environment about that position? <BR/><BR/>I also don't buy your morality-based arguments with respect to China. You mention per capita emissions like the West has some sort of moral responsibility for the fact there are over 1 billion people in China. The reality is that they are steadily approaching our levels of per capita emissions, and will continue to do so with unfettered growth. From an environmental standpoint this is undesireable and should be stopped, or at least slowed.<BR/><BR/>From what I am inferring from your response, and you can correct me if I have mis-interpreted it, not only is it OK that China doesn't do anything, they should be allowed to continue their unsustainable development for an indeterminate amount of time, each year with a growth of emissions roughly equal to Canada's total emissions. <BR/><BR/>If this problem is going to be solved then China needs to be included in the action plan. It's simply not an option to exclude them at this point. Maybe there are moral issues that should be included in cap-setting, but caps need to be set for all major emitters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-31599615497242595502007-12-05T15:42:00.000-05:002007-12-05T15:42:00.000-05:00Canada's total emissions are less than China's mon...Canada's total emissions are less than China's monthly incremental increases.<BR/><BR/>In other words, we could shut down our country completely, and it would be the equivalent of China stopping it's increases (not stipping mind you) for a couple of months. That's not even counting the US, India, Russia ect.<BR/><BR/>Thankfully most Canadian's aren't willing to watch us suffer for effectively no practical effect.<BR/><BR/>And also thankfully, Dion has no clue that Canadians aren't so willing.<BR/><BR/>Glad to see Dion and his followers are still living in the unreal class room world.<BR/><BR/>Now, lets get that late winter election that Dion promised us under way!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-70303992186559720792007-12-05T14:47:00.000-05:002007-12-05T14:47:00.000-05:00"you'd think you'd be too ashamed to be commenting..."you'd think you'd be too ashamed to be commenting further on this"<BR/><BR/>The capacity for shame is obviously limited amongst the imbicile right, although they do have enough self-awareness that they post as "anonymous".Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-88617718280166631992007-12-05T14:28:00.000-05:002007-12-05T14:28:00.000-05:00The bitter, illogical whining coming from the left...<I>The bitter, illogical whining coming from the left is music to my ears. It means Canada is finally doing the correct thing, after all these years of bowing to every ignorant special interest group, paying off every ethnic group, sucking money out of our pockets, and making social experiments which have now created all the social problems we're now experiencing. I thank God for Harper, and I thank God for Dion, who will help ensure Harper gets a minority. Your fear mongering, your "hidden agenda" propaganda, will all be revealed as the lies they are.</I><BR/><BR/>I love this...it's so <I>theatrical</I><BR/><BR/>This has to be Biff.Ti-Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06620550471437012866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-64030538399084580782007-12-05T14:00:00.000-05:002007-12-05T14:00:00.000-05:00Global warming is a hoax and Harper is taking the ...Global warming is a hoax and Harper is taking the best course of action for reducing GHGs. A majority would give Harper the mandate he needs to really solve this non-problem. Any other imaginary problems you'd like to see the Cons tackle? Or maybe you're desperately hoping there <I>is</I> a hidden agenda.<BR/>Ha ha ha ha!<BR/><BR/>p.s. Unable to support your assertions @ 1:37, anony?Lennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05937127608668201556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-55668213312271588072007-12-05T13:38:00.000-05:002007-12-05T13:38:00.000-05:00Anon 2:34:Down to predicting a Harper minority, ar...Anon 2:34:<BR/><BR/>Down to predicting a Harper minority, are we? Oh how the mighty have fallen!bigcitylibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05081538803991095825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23292180.post-30671036332431546942007-12-05T13:34:00.000-05:002007-12-05T13:34:00.000-05:00The bitter, illogical whining coming from the left...The bitter, illogical whining coming from the left is music to my ears. It means Canada is finally doing the correct thing, after all these years of bowing to every ignorant special interest group, paying off every ethnic group, sucking money out of our pockets, and making social experiments which have now created all the social problems we're now experiencing. I thank God for Harper, and I thank God for Dion, who will help ensure Harper gets a minority. Your fear mongering, your "hidden agenda" propaganda, will all be revealed as the lies they are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com