I tend to agree with Sue. As a Jew I can tell you that anti-Semitic jokes about orthodox Jews in cartoons and otherwise always focuses on their beards and sidelocks. Tragically the Nazis understood the religious significance of the beards and brutally ripped the beards from the faces of Chasidic Jews even to the point of tearing their facial skin.
BCL, there is absolutely nothing funny (I know that it was not intended)about using Chadisic beards as a lever to make jokes. It brings back too many painful memories for these Jews. I would get rid of it.
Whooee! I figger anybody wants to grow a beard like that knows they're gonna take some ribbin'. My brother's got a beard like the guy in the bottom pitcher. My grandson don't see his great-uncle too often but he calls him "the man with the beard." We all ge a good laff outta that.
Whether they grow the beard fer fame an' glory as a rock star or fer fame and glory as a holier-than-thou religious fringe member, they gotta know they've made a choice to look different than the norm. Along with the hair, they need to grow a thick skin.
Nazis ate roast beef. Does that mean nobody can ever eat roast beef without bein' called a nazi? Sheeshh!
Quick, BCL...put up an image that mocks the Pope's glorious hats, lovely frocks and divine Prada shoes before some other scold tells you how offensive this is.
I guess you have to understand the horrors these folks went through in order to show even a modicum of sensitivity and civility.
All Im saying is that orthodox Jews have for generations put up with terrible and hurtful anti-Semitic canards and their beards have been a prime focus of that hateful expression.
I always thought this board was just a bit more understanding of that. Guess I was wrong.
How crass...these people LOST an entire generation! They were murdered for goodness sakes!! I guess when Nazi soldiers murder your children and degrade you by pulling your beard off your face with chunks of bloody skin and pulp for pleasure well maybe then you will get it. Some of the comments I have read here I would more expect on Blazingcatfur. Shame on you. Learn to show some understanding of peoples pain...Jews understand humour more than most...they also understand stupid and ignorant prejudice as well.
A little too much outrage. It's rarely kind to mock someone's beard for any reason, but it doesn't somehow become a crueller jibe if its thrown at a Jew. If Xenu and magical underwear are fair game, funny looking beards are also on the table.
Most Chassidic Jews attempt to avoid a practice called ‘lashon hara’ but what you have indulged in this post borders on ‘hotzaat diba’. It wouldn’t hurt you to learn a little from them rather than using them to mimic than the humour of the Aryanian Nation.
Nice work BCL: first your idol the Jackal demonstrates his latent bigotry with a "joke" about Chinese cuisine and now you prove up your latent anti-semitism with a Hamas worthy exercise in photoshopping.
BigCityLiberal, You need to seriously reconsider this thread. Forget Jay Currie and any other rightwing loonie, take this from an anti-racist, this is obscene. You have had 2 members of the Jewish community tell you why. That you choose to ignore their pleas and listen to those who simply don't get it is inappropriate.
Be a "mench", you have made an error in judgement. Apologize and remove this bigoted thread. Any other choice puts you squarely in the racist tent. That's not your place.
Jesus, what a bunch of whining nancyboys. This is what the rightwing whiners consider as anti-semitic? Jesus I expect each of you wankers to head over to Kate, Kathy's and Richard Evans place and throughly condemn than as Nazis for their Holocaust Tattoo Joke?
Comparing a Jew with a beard to a member of ZZ Top is on the same level as the Aryan Nation in Calgary or the Nazis? You guys need to recalibrate your outrage meters, their fubar'ed.
Oh, by the way Kate and Ezra never seem to mind the Aryon Nation dickheads march through Calgary, the are more concerned about the Commie Party that protest them.
Sigh...I am just so disappointed in you BCL. I had you pegged for one of the good guys. The only thing you have proven to me is that when push comes to shove even those we think are "good guys" slide quite easily into anti-Semitism. Its terribly disappointing and even more depressing.
"They get their pass to do this from the fact they support the inherent illiberalism of the HRC's. Because they are willing to deny free speech to selected - and rather loathsome - basement Nazis they are perfectly allowed to be as hateful as they want on their own sites."
Jay, there are times when families and friends will vehemently diagree on issues. I think that on this matter BCL erred in judgement and I am sad and confused he is unable to recognize his ignorance. Partly because it feeds right into this fantasy of yours that its all the "HRC stupid", and that with this tupid mistake you can falsely put people like BCF and others on some kind of white horse.
It is not the HRC! In this case its because BCL cannot really feel or understand the pain of these Chasids. He thinks their beards are funny and something to joke about. Does that make him an anti-Semite? Not yet...it may if he continues not to get it but one error in judgement is forgivable if (like in Kinsella's case) it gets recognized and apologies sincerely offered.
However in cases like 5 Feet of fury, BCf and others where posts are repeated ad nauseum about Pakistanis, First Nations, Islam, Chinese ...an impressive list...with no recognition of its inherant pain and racism (actually quite the opposite) then we have an entirely different story.
And that people like 5 feet support Israel is no free pass to to stereotype and villify others.
Coming from a man who has openly called for Christians to be forced to wear stars in Canada, presumably in preparation for whatever sanctions he and his ilk think fit for us, this really shouldn't be a surprise.
A coupla nights ago, The Movie Network (as carried by Bell Express-Vu) showed the Hollywood comedy, Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story. Hassidic Jews were portrayed as fatcat record producers. The screenplay gave the characters names like Mazeltov and Dreidel L'Chaim.
The movie was released to the world and has been seen by literally millions of viewers. It got a Golden Globe nomination, as well as several other award nominations. Personally, I ain't much of a comedy fan but I did laff a few times.
Maybe the energy spent in outrage expressed here would be better spent going after an example that has a far greater reach. A few hundred Canadian bloggers may have seen BCL's post. Quite a few less than saw Dewey Cox.
I would like Mitka et al to show us the letters they sent to Hollywood writers and producers.
Producers are: Judd Apatow (producer/writer) Carey Dietrich (associate producer) Andrew Epstein (associate producer) Jake Kasdan (producer/writer) Melvin Mar (associate producer) Lewis Morton (executive producer) Clayton Townsend (producer)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0841046/
If this little post by BCL is offensive, Walk Hard is a hate crime.
Thanks BCL, you see that is the difference between people like BCL and Shaidle. He recognized the offence and took action. Shaidle glories in her offence and the only action she would ever take is to continue her racist posts.
JimBobby: I can make jokes about my wife. You can't.
My example was Hollywood making jokes about Jews. Are you trying to say that Hollywood is Jewish?
Only morons can tell jokes about morons.
Only a three man comedy crew can tell the one about a Rabbi, a Priest and a Minister who go into a bar.
Only Irishmen named Paddy Murphy can tell Paddy Murphy jokes. Only people named Paddy Murphy are allowed to laugh at those jokes. Don't get me started on Leprechaun rights.
So... MacPherson and MacTavish were out playing golf... oops! I'm of the clan MacDonald. I can't tell any MacTavish jokes.
JimBobby, JinBobby, calm down, there is nothing more futile than trying to argue the philosophy behind this kind of humour or reduce it to rules. It's acceptability is defined largely by convention and the reaction of the targets, not by the rights of the jokester. Also, time, place and context mean everything. Hollywood gets away with it because nobody minds. If they start minding (or stereotype in pro-Palestinian films), it won't.
I'd stay far away from moron and Irish jokes if I were you, but you are well-placed to tell jokes about environmentalists. Hey, did you hear the one about the climate change activist, the alternative energy lobbyist and the farmer's daughter? It's a little too racy to tell in detail, but in the end she's still a virgin.
JimBobby, JinBobby, calm down, there is nothing more futile than trying to argue the philosophy behind this kind of humour or reduce it to rules.
Hmmm... I think it was you who came up with the rule: "I can make jokes about my wife. You can't".
I'm curious as to why you give Hollywood a free pass. "Hollywood gets away with it because nobody minds. "
Why is it that nobody minds what Hollywood does but when it comes to what a blogger with a couple hundred readers does, it's a big deal? I just don't get why Hollywood can do it on a grand scale with impunity and BCL gets his wrists slapped.
When it comes to jokes about my wife, the rule is there are exceptions to the rule about there being no rules.
I dunno, Jewish humour had been a mainstay of Hollywood comedy since the fifties, inspired by a lot of Jewish comedians and directors like Woody Allen. I suspect it happened because it correlates with a period where overt anti-Semitism was rare and sanctioned stiffly socially. Times are becoming darker today and maybe the lights will go out on all that soon.
Dawg consistently supports anti-Israel positions and anti-Semitic actions. You guys - and Bernie - need to give your heads a shake and realize who the real enemy is - soft anti-semites like BCL, harder anti-Semites like Dawg
Jay Currie is straying into libel here. Just to point that out.
If anyone can find a genuinely anti-Semitic utterance by me, let him or her produce it. Even shlemazl had to give up, eventually, and has accordingly raised my rank to "stupid commie."
I didn't spend all my time on alt.revisionism years ago, debunking Holocaust-denial, and help to organize the rout of the Heritage Front from Ottawa, to put up with this. Fair warning, Jay, but it's the last one.
But I am happy to acknowledge that your own actions, so far as I can tell, are not intentionally anti-Semitic. Now the unintended effects may be but the same can be said of supporting free speech.
I drew too long a bow with "harder anti-Semites"; I should have qualified it with "support for". I didn't and I apologize Dawg.
If nothing else, this kerfuffle shows that the Newfoundlanders are superior to everyone, even the ancient and so called wise.
A Newfie will laugh at a good Newf joke no matter who tells it.
Beyond that, I think you should have stood your ground BCL.
As I read these types of exchanges, and consider the preponderance of evidence provided by history, there are questions that continue to plague me. Such as, why is it that Jews are disliked, and have been disliked for so very long?
Do Jewish people, and particularly the Israeli government ever ask themselves this? Do they seriously ask themselves this question? Do they already know the answer?
Now, I'm just an old Okie from the country whose linage includes veterans of many foreign wars, including the big one. And I would like to know if our sacrifices have been worth our personal suffering.
Jews aren't the only persons who have suffered and known horror.
Do they remember the efforts of the Allied forces, the British, Canadian, American, Aussies and all the rest that eventually led to the ending of their suffrage?
I would like to hear from them on that once in a while, rather than how the world has, and continues to do them wrong.
What I hear from them is how, via the money train and the political influence that affords them, they control America, and it's foreign policies.
Anyone care to address what I have written? BTW, I'm not especially politically correct, so be forewarned.
Heh. That will teach me to quote "The Libellous Words." Thanks, BCL.
I accept Jay's prompt apology, though--so far as it goes. But I don't support anti-Semites either.
I know Sid Ryan--he's a friend of mine from our days in the labour movement. Not an anti-Semitic bone in his body. No pro-Hamas positioning there. Just support for the Palestinians: and we happen to agree on that.
Binary thinkers see all this as a zero-sum game--in any conflict, the amount by which you oppose one side equals the amount by which you support the other. Neither Sid nor I do that. It's possible to oppose Hamas, yet still see them as the legitimately elected representatives of Gaza; it's possible to sympathize with the Gazan Palestinians without throwing in one's lot with Islamic fundamentalists.
The problem is that these differences--hardly nuances--are submerged by some for political reasons. Supporters of Israel are over-eager, to put it mildly, to paint critics of Israeli state policy as "anti-Semites."
That serves an obvious purpose. I'm glad that Jay has backed off, at least to some degree, from what appears to be an overwhelming political temptation. Surely we can discuss even contentious issues without demonizing each other.
I try to keep this place "no holds barred", and am not above keeping really stupid stuff up in the comments for illustrative purposes, but if you go off on a "jews control america" thing, I will delete you.
As for standing down etc., a number of people I know that could not accurately be described as "humourless" were genuinely (rather than fakely) offended. While I might find an occasion where I need to pick a fight with them, I would rather not do it over something as trivial as a joke.
You didn't address a single point that I raised, and I'm not impressed that you tried to paint me as anti Semitic. That was typically lame new age quasi liberal/cpc.
Frankly I don't find this very funny. Actually borders for me on offensive.
ReplyDeleteWell, they can't always be funny. But offensive?
ReplyDeleteBCL,
ReplyDeleteCareful or Kenney will deem you to be an antisemitic supporter of terrorism for this and pull any of your grants.
And yes, they look like ZZ Top and it is funny.
Jokes about ZZ Top's beards have never been funny.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with Sue. As a Jew I can tell you that anti-Semitic jokes about orthodox Jews in cartoons and otherwise always focuses on their beards and sidelocks. Tragically the Nazis understood the religious significance of the beards and brutally ripped the beards from the faces of Chasidic Jews even to the point of tearing their facial skin.
ReplyDeleteBCL, there is absolutely nothing funny (I know that it was not intended)about using Chadisic beards as a lever to make jokes. It brings back too many painful memories for these Jews. I would get rid of it.
Whooee! I figger anybody wants to grow a beard like that knows they're gonna take some ribbin'. My brother's got a beard like the guy in the bottom pitcher. My grandson don't see his great-uncle too often but he calls him "the man with the beard." We all ge a good laff outta that.
ReplyDeleteWhether they grow the beard fer fame an' glory as a rock star or fer fame and glory as a holier-than-thou religious fringe member, they gotta know they've made a choice to look different than the norm. Along with the hair, they need to grow a thick skin.
Nazis ate roast beef. Does that mean nobody can ever eat roast beef without bein' called a nazi? Sheeshh!
JB
Oy, what a tsouris...
ReplyDeleteQuick, BCL...put up an image that mocks the Pope's glorious hats, lovely frocks and divine Prada shoes before some other scold tells you how offensive this is.
I guess you have to understand the horrors these folks went through in order to show even a modicum of sensitivity and civility.
ReplyDeleteAll Im saying is that orthodox Jews have for generations put up with terrible and hurtful anti-Semitic canards and their beards have been a prime focus of that hateful expression.
I always thought this board was just a bit more understanding of that. Guess I was wrong.
Sorry, Mitka. I got my fill of PC humourlessness ages ago.
ReplyDeleteI guess you have to understand the horrors these folks went through in order to show even a modicum of sensitivity and civility..
Are you implying I don't? How presumptuous.
Religious people need to lighten up. Your practices, prophets, texts, etc. are not immune from criticism and mockery.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to believe goofy things, and wear goofy clothes you get laughed at like anyone else who does the same thing.
Religion should not accord privileges. Goths, hippies, beatnicks, etc etc take a lot of flack so should religious people.
How crass...these people LOST an entire generation! They were murdered for goodness sakes!! I guess when Nazi soldiers murder your children and degrade you by pulling your beard off your face with chunks of bloody skin and pulp for pleasure well maybe then you will get it. Some of the comments I have read here I would more expect on Blazingcatfur. Shame on you. Learn to show some understanding of peoples pain...Jews understand humour more than most...they also understand stupid and ignorant prejudice as well.
ReplyDeleteOn scolding per commenter, please.
ReplyDeleteA little too much outrage. It's rarely kind to mock someone's beard for any reason, but it doesn't somehow become a crueller jibe if its thrown at a Jew. If Xenu and magical underwear are fair game, funny looking beards are also on the table.
ReplyDeleteMost Chassidic Jews attempt to avoid a practice called ‘lashon hara’ but what you have indulged in this post borders on ‘hotzaat diba’. It wouldn’t hurt you to learn a little from them rather than using them to mimic than the humour of the Aryanian Nation.
ReplyDeleteNice work BCL: first your idol the Jackal demonstrates his latent bigotry with a "joke" about Chinese cuisine and now you prove up your latent anti-semitism with a Hamas worthy exercise in photoshopping.
ReplyDeleteI trust you're working on Obama as Uncle Ben.
BCL and Ti guy both need your balls ripped off your bodies ... that is, if they can be found.
ReplyDeleteKateland, you were hoping I wouldn't google those words and realize you were bullshitting, right?
ReplyDeleteBigCityLiberal, You need to seriously reconsider this thread. Forget Jay Currie and any other rightwing loonie, take this from an anti-racist, this is obscene. You have had 2 members of the Jewish community tell you why. That you choose to ignore their pleas and listen to those who simply don't get it is inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteBe a "mench", you have made an error in judgement. Apologize and remove this bigoted thread. Any other choice puts you squarely in the racist tent. That's not your place.
Jesus, what a bunch of whining nancyboys. This is what the rightwing whiners consider as anti-semitic? Jesus I expect each of you wankers to head over to Kate, Kathy's and Richard Evans place and throughly condemn than as Nazis for their Holocaust Tattoo Joke?
ReplyDeleteComparing a Jew with a beard to a member of ZZ Top is on the same level as the Aryan Nation in Calgary or the Nazis? You guys need to recalibrate your outrage meters, their fubar'ed.
Oh, by the way Kate and Ezra never seem to mind the Aryon Nation dickheads march through Calgary, the are more concerned about the Commie Party that protest them.
Bunch of nancy boys, minus the balls and spines.
Well, as for my Chinese Food, there's MSG
ReplyDeleteYa, pretty clearly making fun of Chasidic Jews is now good sport here on BCL's blog. Hell we should let Stormfront know they,d love this!!!
ReplyDeleteBCL...
ReplyDeleteHave you ever actually looked someone who had a number tatooed on their arm by the Nazis in the eye and talked to them?
I have.
If I send you a dime, will you go buy a clue?
Dave,
ReplyDeleteNo, man, but I've talked to a number of guys with really outsized beards, and a woman too. Didn't ever have trouble looking them in the eye.
Why do you ask?
Sigh...I am just so disappointed in you BCL. I had you pegged for one of the good guys. The only thing you have proven to me is that when push comes to shove even those we think are "good guys" slide quite easily into anti-Semitism. Its terribly disappointing and even more depressing.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Religious people need to lighten up. Your practices, prophets, texts, etc. are not immune from criticism and mockery."
ReplyDelete"fer fame and glory as a holier-than-thou religious fringe member,"
Oh good, so when can we expect to see some cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad?
"They get their pass to do this from the fact they support the inherent illiberalism of the HRC's. Because they are willing to deny free speech to selected - and rather loathsome - basement Nazis they are perfectly allowed to be as hateful as they want on their own sites."
ReplyDeleteJay, there are times when families and friends will vehemently diagree on issues. I think that on this matter BCL erred in judgement and I am sad and confused he is unable to recognize his ignorance. Partly because it feeds right into this fantasy of yours that its all the "HRC stupid", and that with this tupid mistake you can falsely put people like BCF and others on some kind of white horse.
It is not the HRC! In this case its because BCL cannot really feel or understand the pain of these Chasids. He thinks their beards are funny and something to joke about. Does that make him an anti-Semite? Not yet...it may if he continues not to get it but one error in judgement is forgivable if (like in Kinsella's case) it gets recognized and apologies sincerely offered.
However in cases like 5 Feet of fury, BCf and others where posts are repeated ad nauseum about Pakistanis, First Nations, Islam, Chinese ...an impressive list...with no recognition of its inherant pain and racism (actually quite the opposite) then we have an entirely different story.
And that people like 5 feet support Israel is no free pass to to stereotype and villify others.
Reminds me of the Simon Rushdie scenario, only it's the other shoe this time.
ReplyDeleteI think Shakespeare said it best; "The Lady doth protest too much."
Coming from a man who has openly called for Christians to be forced to wear stars in Canada, presumably in preparation for whatever sanctions he and his ilk think fit for us, this really shouldn't be a surprise.
ReplyDeleteWhooee! I call mock outrgae bullshit.
ReplyDeleteA coupla nights ago, The Movie Network (as carried by Bell Express-Vu) showed the Hollywood comedy, Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story. Hassidic Jews were portrayed as fatcat record producers. The screenplay gave the characters names like Mazeltov and Dreidel L'Chaim.
The movie was released to the world and has been seen by literally millions of viewers. It got a Golden Globe nomination, as well as several other award nominations. Personally, I ain't much of a comedy fan but I did laff a few times.
Maybe the energy spent in outrage expressed here would be better spent going after an example that has a far greater reach. A few hundred Canadian bloggers may have seen BCL's post. Quite a few less than saw Dewey Cox.
I would like Mitka et al to show us the letters they sent to Hollywood writers and producers.
Producers are:
Judd Apatow (producer/writer)
Carey Dietrich (associate producer)
Andrew Epstein (associate producer)
Jake Kasdan (producer/writer)
Melvin Mar (associate producer)
Lewis Morton (executive producer)
Clayton Townsend (producer)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0841046/
If this little post by BCL is offensive, Walk Hard is a hate crime.
Good on ya', BCL.
ReplyDeleteJimBobby: I can make jokes about my wife. You can't.
Thanks BCL, you see that is the difference between people like BCL and Shaidle. He recognized the offence and took action. Shaidle glories in her offence and the only action she would ever take is to continue her racist posts.
ReplyDeleteSo has everyone figured it out yet?
ReplyDeleteYou can't legislate "funny".
You can't legislate "offensive"
You can't even define "hate speech" or "racist"
What is the difference between BCL's artwork and a cartoon of Islam?
I can already hear the screams about how different they are. Only in the minds of the sreamees.
I'm so glad BCL cleared up this little matter, exposing the hypocracy of HRCs, and the whole Politcally Correct subterfuge.
JimBobby: I can make jokes about my wife. You can't.
ReplyDeleteMy example was Hollywood making jokes about Jews. Are you trying to say that Hollywood is Jewish?
Only morons can tell jokes about morons.
Only a three man comedy crew can tell the one about a Rabbi, a Priest and a Minister who go into a bar.
Only Irishmen named Paddy Murphy can tell Paddy Murphy jokes. Only people named Paddy Murphy are allowed to laugh at those jokes. Don't get me started on Leprechaun rights.
So... MacPherson and MacTavish were out playing golf... oops! I'm of the clan MacDonald. I can't tell any MacTavish jokes.
JB
JimBobby, JinBobby, calm down, there is nothing more futile than trying to argue the philosophy behind this kind of humour or reduce it to rules. It's acceptability is defined largely by convention and the reaction of the targets, not by the rights of the jokester. Also, time, place and context mean everything. Hollywood gets away with it because nobody minds. If they start minding (or stereotype in pro-Palestinian films), it won't.
ReplyDeleteI'd stay far away from moron and Irish jokes if I were you, but you are well-placed to tell jokes about environmentalists. Hey, did you hear the one about the climate change activist, the alternative energy lobbyist and the farmer's daughter? It's a little too racy to tell in detail, but in the end she's still a virgin.
Good call BCL.
ReplyDeleteJimBobby, JinBobby, calm down, there is nothing more futile than trying to argue the philosophy behind this kind of humour or reduce it to rules.
ReplyDeleteHmmm... I think it was you who came up with the rule: "I can make jokes about my wife. You can't".
I'm curious as to why you give Hollywood a free pass. "Hollywood gets away with it because nobody minds. "
Why is it that nobody minds what Hollywood does but when it comes to what a blogger with a couple hundred readers does, it's a big deal? I just don't get why Hollywood can do it on a grand scale with impunity and BCL gets his wrists slapped.
JB
When it comes to jokes about my wife, the rule is there are exceptions to the rule about there being no rules.
ReplyDeleteI dunno, Jewish humour had been a mainstay of Hollywood comedy since the fifties, inspired by a lot of Jewish comedians and directors like Woody Allen. I suspect it happened because it correlates with a period where overt anti-Semitism was rare and sanctioned stiffly socially. Times are becoming darker today and maybe the lights will go out on all that soon.
Wow...just saw this:
ReplyDeleteDawg consistently supports anti-Israel positions and anti-Semitic actions. You guys - and Bernie - need to give your heads a shake and realize who the real enemy is - soft anti-semites like BCL, harder anti-Semites like Dawg
Jay Currie is straying into libel here. Just to point that out.
If anyone can find a genuinely anti-Semitic utterance by me, let him or her produce it. Even shlemazl had to give up, eventually, and has accordingly raised my rank to "stupid commie."
I didn't spend all my time on alt.revisionism years ago, debunking Holocaust-denial, and help to organize the rout of the Heritage Front from Ottawa, to put up with this. Fair warning, Jay, but it's the last one.
Dawg, two words: Syd Ryan
ReplyDeleteBut I am happy to acknowledge that your own actions, so far as I can tell, are not intentionally anti-Semitic. Now the unintended effects may be but the same can be said of supporting free speech.
I drew too long a bow with "harder anti-Semites"; I should have qualified it with "support for". I didn't and I apologize Dawg.
Dawg,
ReplyDeletepulled the comment, which I did not read terribly closely in the first place.
Currie, show some couth.
If nothing else, this kerfuffle shows that the Newfoundlanders are superior to everyone, even the ancient and so called wise.
ReplyDeleteA Newfie will laugh at a good Newf joke no matter who tells it.
Beyond that, I think you should have stood your ground BCL.
As I read these types of exchanges, and consider the preponderance of evidence provided by history, there are questions that continue to plague me. Such as, why is it that Jews are disliked, and have been disliked for so very long?
Do Jewish people, and particularly the Israeli government ever ask themselves this? Do they seriously ask themselves this question? Do they already know the answer?
Now, I'm just an old Okie from the country whose linage includes veterans of many foreign wars, including the big one. And I would like to know if our sacrifices have been worth our personal suffering.
Jews aren't the only persons who have suffered and known horror.
Do they remember the efforts of the Allied forces, the British, Canadian, American, Aussies and all the rest that eventually led to the ending of their suffrage?
I would like to hear from them on that once in a while, rather than how the world has, and continues to do them wrong.
What I hear from them is how, via the money train and the political influence that affords them, they control America, and it's foreign policies.
Anyone care to address what I have written? BTW, I'm not especially politically correct, so be forewarned.
Heh. That will teach me to quote "The Libellous Words." Thanks, BCL.
ReplyDeleteI accept Jay's prompt apology, though--so far as it goes. But I don't support anti-Semites either.
I know Sid Ryan--he's a friend of mine from our days in the labour movement. Not an anti-Semitic bone in his body. No pro-Hamas positioning there. Just support for the Palestinians: and we happen to agree on that.
Binary thinkers see all this as a zero-sum game--in any conflict, the amount by which you oppose one side equals the amount by which you support the other. Neither Sid nor I do that. It's possible to oppose Hamas, yet still see them as the legitimately elected representatives of Gaza; it's possible to sympathize with the Gazan Palestinians without throwing in one's lot with Islamic fundamentalists.
The problem is that these differences--hardly nuances--are submerged by some for political reasons. Supporters of Israel are over-eager, to put it mildly, to paint critics of Israeli state policy as "anti-Semites."
That serves an obvious purpose. I'm glad that Jay has backed off, at least to some degree, from what appears to be an overwhelming political temptation. Surely we can discuss even contentious issues without demonizing each other.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteComrade,
ReplyDeleteI try to keep this place "no holds barred", and am not above keeping really stupid stuff up in the comments for illustrative purposes, but if you go off on a "jews control america" thing, I will delete you.
As for standing down etc., a number of people I know that could not accurately be described as "humourless" were genuinely (rather than fakely) offended. While I might find an occasion where I need to pick a fight with them, I would rather not do it over something as trivial as a joke.
The hell? This post comparing some Lubavitchers to ZZ Top got the most hits in a long time?
ReplyDeleteAll of you who are so concerned about the content of this blog...where the hell have ya'll been? Having lives? Ha!
I expose the CATO Institute's latest anti-environmental smear campaign, I get fuck all in hits.
ReplyDeleteI tease a few rabbis, all hell breaks loose...
Well, BCL, with the CATO thing we know you're blowing smoke ;)
ReplyDeleteI wonder when Currietard is going to start that career in writing.
ReplyDeleteYou didn't address a single point that I raised, and I'm not impressed that you tried to paint me as anti Semitic. That was typically lame new age quasi liberal/cpc.
ReplyDeleteTake that over to the small dead animal brigade.
I want to met them both.
ReplyDeleteMaria[dress shirts