...on Bill C-391:
Manitoba NDP MP Jim Maloway said he was not consulted by Layton or anyone else on the proposed bill.
"I got a heads-up on Saturday that there would be announcement by the leader Monday morning on the gun registry," said Maloway.
Regardless, said Maloway, he still plans to vote with Hoeppner.
"Nothing there changes my view on the long-gun registry," said Maloway.
He also said Layton's proposal is too little too late.
"This bill just went through committee last spring," said Maloway. "Where were all these amendments at the committee?"
If you read closely here, it sounds as though Maloway is admitting that Layton's new bill will not derail the vote on C-391. Furthermore, read between the lines and it sounds like Maloway is saying that he will not co-operate in the bringing forward of Jack's new "compromise" bill. Looks like the NDP leader has lost control of the debate and his own caucus.
So, is his gun registry stance Jack Layton's worst political mistake in a career that hasn't seen too many of them?
He was OK as long as the LPC caucus was divided on the issue. The fact they have reached a compromise and will be whipped puts him in a bad position. He badly miscalculated.
ReplyDeleteGayle says:
ReplyDelete"He was OK as long as the LPC caucus was divided on the issue. The fact they have reached a compromise and will be whipped puts him in a bad position. He badly miscalculated."
Listen to yourself speak Gayle! If there is a compromise with the LPC caucus,why would Mr.Ignatieff need to whip his Mps on the vote? It makes no sense what you're saying!
If he whips the vote, and some of his MP's defy him, kind of puts a huge kink in his leadership, dont you think? On the other hand, if he whips and his caucus falls in line, it should demonstrate he has control over his caucus.
ReplyDeleteGayle if liberals say that they have a compromise you wouldn't need to whip the vote! My point is that even with the so called compromise Mr.Ignatieff doesn't trust those Mps to vote with the party! Thats a "fact!"
ReplyDeleteJust look at the Conservatives as far as I can tell the vote isn't whipped!
PC, If Manoway is telling the truth Jack doesn't have support in his own caucus for this ridiculous "compromise". And, yeah, the Tories have whipped their vote on C-391.
ReplyDeleteBig I agree the are not united on the long-gun registry. No-one is deny this. As to the Conservatives whipping their vote on C-391 I don't know may be ,right!
ReplyDeleteBut for the liberals to come out and say that they have a compromise,but at the same time whip their vote is ridiculous in my view. It says two things to me! 1) The liberals don't have their MPs fully on board and two Mr.Ignatieff doesn't trust them. I didn't see the other leaders making a big fuss on how united their parties are on C-391. Tell me that I'm wrong!
"I didn't see the other leaders making a big fuss on how united their parties are on C-391."
ReplyDeleteHow many other party leaders are facing criticism for having a fractured caucus?
(The answer would be none).
Gayle says:
ReplyDelete"I didn't see the other leaders making a big fuss on how united their parties are on C-391."
How many other party leaders are facing criticism for having a fractured caucus?
(The answer would be none).
Correction the NDP has a fractured caucus on bill C-391
Maloway has a reputation for being just about the dimmest bulb in the NDP caucus and for not being a team player. When one NDP MPs says something even mildly critical it attracts attention because its something that almost never happens (there tends to be so much consistent division and dissent in the Liberal caucus that it hardly makes news anymore - it's white noise).
ReplyDeleteSomething is only a miscalculation if there was a better choice to be made. In this case there is none. The most ideal scenario would be to have a free unwhipped vote in the NDP caucus and for everyone to spontaneously vote to keep the registry. That's obviously not going to happen. The other choice would IMHO be a TRUE miscalculation - trying to whip the caucus after a dozen MPs and many other candidates had been led to believe for years and years that they were free to take an anti-gun registry position and campaigned accordingly. THAT would be the worst of both worlds - the rural and northern caucus would be up in arms - most of the MPs in question would probably defy the whip regardless and the blow-back would be about a hundred times greater then anything we see now.
For all the talk about this being a "free vote", how come we never read anything about Tory MPs from urban ridings in Quebec voting to save the registry?? Is the vote truly free in the Tory caucus or have their been threats against any Tories even thinking of opposing the bill?
"Correction the NDP has a fractured caucus on bill C-391"
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to play dumb, there is no point in any discussion.
In case you missed it, the liberals have long suffered from reports they are not united, and they do not have a leader strong enough to pull them together.
A leader who whips the vote, and has the MP's comply with the whip (something that has backfired in the past), is one who clearly has control over his caucus, particularly when there are members of that caucus who originally opposed the vote.
PC, you know you are losing your spine when on an issue that is resoundingly supported in the ndp party, the threats, cajoling and blitzing of the gun lobby group. When you show some conviction and aren't just worried about your jobs -- why listen to police and frontline surgeons, afterall? -- maybe people will listen to you.
ReplyDeleteAre you joking,the only leader who has lost leadership of his caucus is Ignatieff. Look I understand your a loyal Lib an all but cheezzz how you arrive at such conclusion is beyond me.
ReplyDeleteDespite what you might believe this long-gun nonsense is not the issue that's going to change any one minds,particularly not about the Libs. Iggy has been weak since day one,the Con's out maneuver the guy at every turn,and what do Liberal supporters do, blame Jack and the NDP. The best thing the Lib's could do is allow a free vote in the hope that this non-issue will go away ...hopefully before the Lib's trip over themselves-yet again.O I forgot they have already done that again...
. Iggy has been weak since day one,the Con's out maneuver the guy at every turn,and what do Liberal supporters do, blame Jack and the NDP. The best thing the Lib's could do is allow a free vote in the hope that this non-issue will go away ...hopefully before the Lib's trip over themselves-yet again.O I forgot they have already done that again...
ReplyDeleteIf the Liberals and the Bloc vote against the bill, it would be on the Conservatives and the NDP if the bill passes at this point.
Not sure how a Liberal free vote would help the party, but it sure would take some heat off of the NDP.
You know, there are somethings I am frankly embarrassed about when it comes to the Liberal party.... Would it really kill an NDP supporter to admit that voting down the long-gun registry is not Jack Layton's shining moment?
Do any of you actually think that every Liberal MP will be present for the vote and vote the party line?
ReplyDelete'Tis to laugh!
Keep an eye out for Bagnell and Simms.
Watch for Wayne Easter to be soundly punted in the next election.
Mark my words, C391 will pass...probably due to absenteeism in the opposition benches. After all, that's how the Libs do it.
preparing for the upcoming Jim spazzout as he makes yet another "point" of conjecture.
ReplyDelete5-4-3-2-1.....
I don't need to spazz.
ReplyDeleteJust answer the question. Do you think this vote is going to go like Iggy has demanded?
I don't. The Libs will cower and fold, just like always.
The bill will pass, the NDP will benefit, and the ineffectual Libs will suffer.
pure conjecture. I'll just wait for the actual vote and let fools like you piss in the wind.
ReplyDeleteDo you ever have anything worthwhile to say?
ReplyDeleteOdd being called a fool by someone like you.
Anyway, I'll be back after the 22nd to rub your face it.
Ciao for now.
Goodbye Jim. Funny you make an accusation of me that has been made so many times of you.
ReplyDeleteLooking forward to the autumn spazzout
"resoundingly supported in the ndp party"
ReplyDeleteRockfish, you're making stuff up.
The registry has never had resounding support within the NDP. In fact, when your precious registry was introduced - along with draconian enforcement provisions that overthrew your precious Trudeau's Charter - the majority of the NDP caucus (including quite left wing MPs like Simon de Jong) voted against it. The NDP government of Manitoba and the former NDP government in Saskatchewan refused to enforce the registry in their jurisdictions.
The fact of the matter is that the Liberals deliberately enacted a law that targeted and criminalized a segment of the electorate that rarely support Liberals. They played wedge politics and have spent the last 15 years demonizing all gun owners.
At the same time, the Conservatives have played the other side of the wedge politics.
And during the recent committee work on this bill, Liberals and Conservatives united to ensure that no amendments to the registry could be made to address any of the legitimate concerns of responsible gun owners.
Neither the Liberals nor the Conservatives give a rat's ass about public safety. For them, this is pure political brinksmanship, wedge politics and fundraising.