The registry did nothing to stop Const. Calderwood getting shot when he investigated a known drug house in Lindsay last month. Odd that criminals never seem to register their guns.
Ridofbrain, pretty sure the cops would have gone into a known drug house suspecting there could be guns in there, registered or not (most likely not). When the OPP attempted to stop Fred Preston last year on a rural road near Seaforth ON, that didn't help constable Vu Pham from getting shot and killed from a registered long gun.
Incidentally, the national sex offenders list didn't stop a number of high-profile cases from re-offending either. By your logic should we should scrap the sex offenders registry too?
The gun registry, like the sex offenders list, is meant primarily to be an investigative tool for the police. It is hoped they will help prevent crimes too, but neither is a guarantee.
The registry also makes life safer for officers by preventing uncertainty when entering a premises where there are no guns expected. If the registry says no guns, and you see someone with a gun, you can shoot them and ask questions later, since they can't possibly be a legal gun owner with every right to be there.
I'm really surprised that I haven't seen any gun nuts telling us those kids should have been packing heat and therefore kind of deserved what they got.
Incidentally, the national sex offenders list didn't stop a number of high-profile cases from re-offending either. By your logic should we should scrap the sex offenders registry too?
Really is amazing how much this reasoning is used. I watched a chronic idiot on twitter suggest that the tragedy in Norway must be devastating for "leftists" because it proves that gun laws are useless. Just brain dead.
"Soon, In Canada, You Won't Have To Register Norwegian Mass Murderer's Weapon Of Choice"
The other weapon the shooter used, ammonium nitrate, will still have detailed sales records in Canada. (The fuss during the G8 when a guy bought over a thousand pounds of ammonium nitrate was caused when the seller forgot to take down the guy's ID.) Overall, the regulations for the fertilizer seem a bit strict for the fertilizer.
So, tough regulations for fertilizer, less so in the future for guns.
No one is so simple as to suggest that registering cars prevent motor vehicle accidents. Straw man argument. Registering cars deters crimes committed using cars because the car can be traced. Deterring joy riding because you can be tracked down will prevent accidents caused by inexperienced joy riders.
Just as Kimveer Gill took pains to take his time to plan his act - including registering his firearm - so to could the next mass-killer. Just as a professional burglar will get into your house if determined enough, no matter what kind of security system you have, it doesn't follow that you don't put any locks on your house at all. You are using an extreme case and attempting to extrapolate to all cases. Gill registered his gun because he bought it in a store instead of just picking one up from a gunrunner on the spur of the moment. He would be concerned about the gunrunner ratting him out and so for him, the best way to keep the heat off was to register.
These kooks typically kill themselves or surrender to authorities - so, please illuminate just how gun registration impacts on terrorism. Gun registration adds an extra step that deters many kooks. Like the kids that walk down the street trying the doors on every car they see, they aren't determined enough to bother forcing the car open.
Making it harder to get firearms for the less determined, such as your local crack dealer, is the objective. Restricting access to suitcase nukes seems to be working pretty well so far. For the less extreme case of a pistol, your crack dealer either takes the courses and buys the gun, or buys it from a gunrunner. The fact remains that every firearm started off as a legal one. There may be clandestine gun factories next to the fake Apple stores in China, but otherwise, an unregistered firearm was legal and then stolen or handed off at some point. Registration forces whoever it was stolen from to report it. That makes it harder to get them, and makes it harder for gun dealers to have unreported supposed stock "shrinkage".
Registration also means your local crack dealer has to go to a gunrunner who is in possession of already stolen guns. Without registration, the gunrunner can be anyone with a FAC who is willing to buy one for him. You buy it, you resell it. Who's to know? It's like buying alcohol for minors. You buy the bottle, you resell it. If the bottle was registered and you had to somehow show proof you still had it or you sold it you would be much less likely to sell it to a minor since it can be traced back to you. Please don't try to derail this discussion by claiming I advocate registering liquor bottles.
So registration is really a way of enforcing personal responsibility for FAC holders so they can't easily become gunrunners.
The other benefit of registration is it lets law enforcement know how many firearms you have. You have an arsenal for a small army, especially all the same make and model, unlike what a collector might have, you might find you're attracting attention from the anti-terrorism people. They don't really give a hoot if you buy 10 pounds of ammonium nitrate but 6 tonnes? Maybe.
I continue to be unable to understand why people are so adamant against registering things that can so easily kill people. Such as guns and cars.
Thanks for the link.
ReplyDeleteThe registry did nothing to stop Const. Calderwood getting shot when he investigated a known drug house in Lindsay last month.
ReplyDeleteOdd that criminals never seem to register their guns.
Ridofbrain, pretty sure the cops would have gone into a known drug house suspecting there could be guns in there, registered or not (most likely not). When the OPP attempted to stop Fred Preston last year on a rural road near Seaforth ON, that didn't help constable Vu Pham from getting shot and killed from a registered long gun.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, the national sex offenders list didn't stop a number of high-profile cases from re-offending either. By your logic should we should scrap the sex offenders registry too?
The gun registry, like the sex offenders list, is meant primarily to be an investigative tool for the police. It is hoped they will help prevent crimes too, but neither is a guarantee.
The registry also makes life safer for officers by preventing uncertainty when entering a premises where there are no guns expected. If the registry says no guns, and you see someone with a gun, you can shoot them and ask questions later, since they can't possibly be a legal gun owner with every right to be there.
ReplyDeleteI'm really surprised that I haven't seen any gun nuts telling us those kids should have been packing heat and therefore kind of deserved what they got.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, the national sex offenders list didn't stop a number of high-profile cases from re-offending either. By your logic should we should scrap the sex offenders registry too?
ReplyDeleteReally is amazing how much this reasoning is used. I watched a chronic idiot on twitter suggest that the tragedy in Norway must be devastating for "leftists" because it proves that gun laws are useless. Just brain dead.
"Soon, In Canada, You Won't Have To Register Norwegian Mass Murderer's Weapon Of Choice"
ReplyDeleteThe other weapon the shooter used, ammonium nitrate, will still have detailed sales records in Canada. (The fuss during the G8 when a guy bought over a thousand pounds of ammonium nitrate was caused when the seller forgot to take down the guy's ID.) Overall, the regulations for the fertilizer seem a bit strict for the fertilizer.
So, tough regulations for fertilizer, less so in the future for guns.
Hate to be a broken record but..
ReplyDeleteKimveer Gill = Canadian Terrorist = Registered Gun Owner
No connection between gun registration and preventing murder of innocents.
I'm sorry, I just can't get past Rob's brilliant legal mind and reasoning. Does your example also prove that laws against murder are useless?
ReplyDeleteThe displayed weapon is illegal in Canada, being a semi-automatic rifle whose magazine holds more than five rounds.
ReplyDeleteNo connection between gun registration and preventing murder of innocents.
ReplyDeleteAnd the car registry is useless. Do you want that abolished too?
No one is so simple as to suggest that registering cars prevent motor vehicle accidents.
ReplyDeleteRegistration may have a purpose - but preventing crimes such as what happened in Norway isn't one of them.
But then maybe this brilliant legal mind isn't making the connection - so explain it to me.
Just as Kimveer Gill took pains to take his time to plan his act - including registering his firearm - so to could the next mass-killer.
These kooks typically kill themselves or surrender to authorities - so, please illuminate just how gun registration impacts on terrorism.
BCL made the connection - I'm simply asking what that connection is.
No one is so simple as to suggest that registering cars prevent motor vehicle accidents.
ReplyDeleteStraw man argument. Registering cars deters crimes committed using cars because the car can be traced. Deterring joy riding because you can be tracked down will prevent accidents caused by inexperienced joy riders.
Just as Kimveer Gill took pains to take his time to plan his act - including registering his firearm - so to could the next mass-killer.
Just as a professional burglar will get into your house if determined enough, no matter what kind of security system you have, it doesn't follow that you don't put any locks on your house at all. You are using an extreme case and attempting to extrapolate to all cases. Gill registered his gun because he bought it in a store instead of just picking one up from a gunrunner on the spur of the moment. He would be concerned about the gunrunner ratting him out and so for him, the best way to keep the heat off was to register.
These kooks typically kill themselves or surrender to authorities - so, please illuminate just how gun registration impacts on terrorism.
Gun registration adds an extra step that deters many kooks. Like the kids that walk down the street trying the doors on every car they see, they aren't determined enough to bother forcing the car open.
Making it harder to get firearms for the less determined, such as your local crack dealer, is the objective. Restricting access to suitcase nukes seems to be working pretty well so far. For the less extreme case of a pistol, your crack dealer either takes the courses and buys the gun, or buys it from a gunrunner. The fact remains that every firearm started off as a legal one. There may be clandestine gun factories next to the fake Apple stores in China, but otherwise, an unregistered firearm was legal and then stolen or handed off at some point. Registration forces whoever it was stolen from to report it. That makes it harder to get them, and makes it harder for gun dealers to have unreported supposed stock "shrinkage".
Registration also means your local crack dealer has to go to a gunrunner who is in possession of already stolen guns. Without registration, the gunrunner can be anyone with a FAC who is willing to buy one for him. You buy it, you resell it. Who's to know? It's like buying alcohol for minors. You buy the bottle, you resell it. If the bottle was registered and you had to somehow show proof you still had it or you sold it you would be much less likely to sell it to a minor since it can be traced back to you. Please don't try to derail this discussion by claiming I advocate registering liquor bottles.
So registration is really a way of enforcing personal responsibility for FAC holders so they can't easily become gunrunners.
The other benefit of registration is it lets law enforcement know how many firearms you have. You have an arsenal for a small army, especially all the same make and model, unlike what a collector might have, you might find you're attracting attention from the anti-terrorism people. They don't really give a hoot if you buy 10 pounds of ammonium nitrate but 6 tonnes? Maybe.
I continue to be unable to understand why people are so adamant against registering things that can so easily kill people. Such as guns and cars.
Nice riffle man,Wishing I have Ak47
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