Wednesday, January 16, 2008

Prestigious University Tells Pope To Fuck Off

Apparently, in the past Pope Benedict has indicated his satisfaction with the outcome of Galileo's trial:
The astronomer had argued that the Earth revolved around the Sun, in contradiction to church teachings at the time, and he was forced to renounce his findings publicly.
In comments made 15 years ago when he was still a cardinal, Pope Benedict is reported to have called the trial "reasonable and just."
During his speech, the pope -- then Cardinal Ratzinger -- quoted an Austrian philosopher Paul Feyerabend, saying, "At the time of Galileo, the church remained more loyal (or faithful) to reason than Galileo himself.
Shockingly enough, it was only 15 years ago that the Earth's moving through the heavens became accepted Catholic doctrine, and apparently Pope Benny still has doubts.
In any case, the Pope was forced to cancel his visit to La Sapienza university when students protested his anachronistic views and academics at the university signed a letter demanding that the trip be called off.
Good on them.
The other interesting thing is how Philosopher of Science Paul Feyerabend's name crops up. The Pope I think misreads Feyerabend here. PF's argument is that the Vatican applied canons of reason and justice to Galileo's case that, while perhaps self-consistent, in fact do not apply to cases of real scientific inquiry. But Feyerabend had a way of writing that lent itself to misinterpretation, and it is also not entirely clear whether he would have disapproved of his theories being used to defend anti-science positions like that of the Pope, or of Creation scientists, for that matter. He did, after all, defend Astrology and seemed to be quite sincere about it.

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Tell us more about your plan to ban Christianity. Mao, Pol Pot, and Stalin tried it, and it doesn't seem to have worked very well.

It is difficult to believe that you have read 20th century history, or philosophy, if you so eagerly cheer the death of Christianity.

No gravitas, not an ounce of it to be found among the atheists. You all come off as short pant wearing TV watching prepubescent skateboarders.

Red Tory said...

Tough talk there, ANONYMOUS.

Anonymous said...

Wow, this crackdown on anonymous commentary among Canadian left wing bloggers isn't going away, is it? Are you sure you've thought this thing through?

Most bloggers seem to like readers and comments; by discouraging both I can't see how you are acting in their interest. In a broader scale, you're going very much out of your way to stifle debate, and that needs to be noted.

Did you not go running to the RCMP recently due to perceived 'threats' from someone on the net? I think you did, which makes your position on this matter doubly disingenuous. So let's fuck off with the crackdown on protected identity commentary, mmm-kay?

bigcitylib said...

Anon 10:57,

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Also, anon 10:30, I would not ban Christianity. Nor would I feed Christians to the lions, unless the lions were endangered and very hungry.

Red Tory said...

Go shove your sanctimony where the sun don’t shine, mmm-kay?

Sean S. said...

There isn't a need to ban Christianity, its doing quite well in marginalizing and slowly killing itself...

gotta love those drive-by anon commenter's...I wonder if they wear paperbags on their heads in public too....

Ti-Guy said...

There isn't a need to ban Christianity, its doing quite well in marginalizing and slowly killing itself...

You'd think the old virgins in dresses would have realised that by now.

What a fucking mistake this Pope was.

Gauntlet said...

In my undergraduate political science degree I did a research paper on that trial. Recent evidence from the Vatican archives suggests that the trial on the question of whether the earth rotates round the sun was a cover, and that the church was really more concerned with getting Galileo to shut up about atomism, which they thought was impossible to reconcile with the dogma of transubstantiation.

Mike said...

"It is difficult to believe that you have read 20th century history, or philosophy, if you so eagerly cheer the death of Christianity."

No but reading the 1900 or so years of history before that makes it pretty easy.

Of course, i don't want to ban Christianity, I just want them to mind their own fucking business.

Now, it you don't mind, I need to skateboard down to the Accountants to have my corproate taxes done for last fiscal year.

Dude.

Anonymous said...

Given how immigrants are over-represented in the churchgoing Catholic cohort it should be pointed out that you are engaging in an anti-immigrant, anti-Filipino, anti-Portuguese, anti-Latin American and even anti-Chinese bashing exercise.

Now, I'm a nice guy, and am not going running to the commission, but given the statistical data you're treading dangerously close to Wolfgang Droege-style anti-immigrant bashing territory here, and maybe it's better you hear it from me than someone else.

Ti-Guy said...

Given how immigrants are over-represented in the churchgoing Catholic cohort it should be pointed out that you are engaging in an anti-immigrant, anti-Filipino, anti-Portuguese, anti-Latin American and even anti-Chinese bashing exercise.

What a complex lie. Do you often lie like this, you really shitty Christian?

Now, I'm a nice guy...

No you're not. You're a time-wasting asshole.

...It's the fact that these anony-tards think they're being clever that's really depressing.

makalu said...

What a complex lie. Do you often lie like this, you really shitty Christian?

Hey ti-clown, thanks for proving what a bigoted bag of putrid slime you are. What a brilliant retort. Sooo inacapable of countering any rational arguments while being continuously humiliated by people who don't have lentils for brains. And now you're going for the leftard full monty and resorting to insulting Christians. No doubt while playing with your pitiful pecker in your crackhouse basement apartment. I sure hope that you're the first one the Pisslamists come for if they take over.

Ti-Guy said...

I'm a Christian...just a real one who doesn't fabricate a complicated and sophistic piece of nonsense to falsely accuse his detractors of bigotry. Thou shallt not bear false witness, after all.

Peace be with you, motherfucker.

Open minded Liberal said...

Well it figures that Big City Lib would support more suppression of free speech. These individuals were protesting the Pope speaking at their University, apparently only certain views are acceptable for public consumption, others not. Then who jumps on the bandwagon, ti-guy, not surprising given the usual left-wing intolerance that spews from his mouth.

Oh, and then there's Red Tory who's crawled out of his cave. His blog regularly shut down anonymous commenters,especially when they were getting the better of the argument,which was quite often actually. His blog was a haven for the intolerant left-wing. They brooked no dissent. Nice to see that blight on the blogosphere done away with for a time anyway.

You guys are a disgrace to all open-minded Liberals. Red Tory's blog used to give My Blahg a run for their money on bigotry, while this one has a way to go it's going in the same depressing direction.

BCL, why have a blog if you're going to side with the banners of free speech? Surely we should be all on the same page at least on this issue.

And kudos for allowing anonymous comments, and don't listen to Red Tory and Ti-guy's advise to close them off, the day you do that you'll become one of them.

frances said...

I expect speech suppression from Muslims, they have some catching up to do with respect to basic freedoms like freedom of speech.

It is getting discouraging with the left follows suit. Maybe Jonah Goldberg is on to something in his latest book, Liberal Fascism, I think I'll go get a copy.

Ti-Guy said...

Biff:

These individuals were protesting the Pope speaking at their University, apparently only certain views are acceptable for public consumption...

I'm sure Italian students are more than familiar enough with what il Papa has to say about anything and everything.

Free speech doesn't mean the right to demand to be heard.

Ti-Guy said...

And kudos for allowing anonymous comments, and don't listen to Red Tory and Ti-guy's advise to close them off, the day you do that you'll become one of them.

Are you afraid that you, Frances, Ding Dong, Andrew, Biff, Biff and Biff won't be able to talk to each other anymore?

I didn't know sock-puppets got so attached to each other.

andrew said...

Frances and Open-minded Liberal:

"The intolerant left" is becoming part of the common parlance. Here's another recent example.

The New York Times just hired conservative Irving Kristol for their self-descibed "left-leaning Op-Ed page." What was the reaction of the sophisticated New York Times readers? From their own ombudsman (who disagreed with the hiring of Kristol) - "Of the nearly 700 messages I have received since Kristol’s selection was announced — more than half of them before he ever wrote a word for The Times — exactly one praised the choice.

Rosenthal’s mail has been particularly rough. “That rotten, traiterous [sic] piece of filth should be hung by the ankles from a lamp post and beaten by the mob rather than gaining a pulpit at ANY self-respecting news organization,” said one message. “You should be ashamed. Apparently you are only out for money and therefore an equally traiterous [sic] whore deserving the same treatment.”

Kristol would not have been my choice to join David Brooks as a second conservative voice in the mix of Times columnists, but the reaction is beyond reason. Hiring Kristol the worst idea ever? I can think of many worse. Hanging someone from a lamppost to be beaten by a mob because of his ideas? And that is from a liberal, defined by Webster as “one who is open-minded.” What have we come to?

The left here in Canada and frequenters of this website in particular should ask themselves the same question.

Ti-Guy said...

“That rotten, traiterous [sic] piece of filth should be hung by the ankles from a lamp post and beaten by the mob rather than gaining a pulpit at ANY self-respecting news organization,” said one message. “You should be ashamed. Apparently you are only out for money and therefore an equally traiterous [sic] whore deserving the same treatment.”

How do you know it wasn't just a bunch of Righties (who were confused, naturally) sending in e-mails about Al Gore or Barack Obama or the Dalai Lama?

What have we come to?

The left here in Canada and frequenters of this website in particular should ask themselves the same question.


I quite often do. And my answer is that William Kristol should be tased, blind-folded and sent to Syria to be tortured to find out how exactly the Cabal is planning on destroy democracy.

What do you think, Andrew? Is the Cabal planning another 9/11?

Anonymous said...

open minded liberal,

I enjoy this blog mostly because BCL frequently posts on environmental issues which resonate with me. I also beleive that we should allow free debate as that is the best way to get to the truth of things.

I also used to go to Red Tory, I think he was pretty tolerant of various points of view but sometimes people like Biff would goad him beyond the breaking point. He also seems to hate catholics but then being the Englishman that he is, he comes by that naturally.

andrew said...

What do I think Ti-guy? I think you're a paranoid S.O.B., delusional as usual. Get a grip on reality you left-wing psycho. That's what I think.

bigcitylib said...

OML wrote:

"These individuals were protesting the Pope speaking at their University, apparently only certain views are acceptable for public consumption, others not."

They were going to let him speak, they just wanted the right to protest his speech. By playing rock n' roll, as a matter of fact, which Pope Benny really and truly thinks is devil music.

And, yeah, I seem to have picked up a few of Red Tories readers. If he ever starts blogging again, I want him to take Biff back.

Frances said...

What do I think Ti-guy? I think you're a paranoid S.O.B., delusional as usual. Get a grip on reality you left-wing psycho. That's what I think.

You tell him, Andrew.

Andrew said...

Thanks, Frances.

Moral High Ground said...

Once upon a time universities were bastions of free speech, nowadays they have become breeding grounds for left-wing political group think. I, for one, don't think that that phenomenon should be condoned, let alone applauded.

Dante said...

...It's the fact that these anony-tards think they're being clever that's really depressing.

So Mr. Guy. Did your Mom or Dad name you Ti?

bigcitylib said...

Dante, At least Ti-guy has the brains to summon up a fake identity. You too. But how do I know if its one anon wingnut who obsesses over me or twenty that don't?

Someone told me its because blogger makes it so hard to create profiles. But at least people could sign something at the bottom.

liberal and catholic said...

Excerpt from BCL's post:

In any case, the Pope was forced to cancel his visit to La Sapienza university when students protested his anachronistic views and academics at the university signed a letter demanding that the trip be called off.
Good on them.

As a Liberal party member and progressive Roman Catholic I have to say I part company with your sentiments BCL. As an active Liberal party volunteer in the GTA area, I'm getting concerned that the Liberal Party is following the lead of the Democratic Pary in the U.S. and becoming less and less a Big Tent Party. Catholic-baiting is a pointless exercise at best and at worst alienating middle-class voters who tend to vote Liberal is dumb. Last time I checked no one is being forced to become a Catholic and expouse the Church's views.

bigcitylib said...

Lib&Ca wrote:

"A a Liberal party member and progressive Roman Catholic I have to say I part company with your sentiments BCL. As an active Liberal party volunteer in the GTA area, I'm getting concerned that the Liberal Party..."

I am not a Member of any party. Just a big L Liberal from the Big C city. Why blame the LPC for this blog? Also, why blame them for the shitty pope you guys chose? The people protesting him are, presumably, also largely Catholic. You figure they would know.

liberal and catholic said...

BCL says "I am not a Member of any party. (...) Why blame the LPC for this blog?

I dunno, BCL, maybe it's because you're a member of Liblogs which is administered by Jason Cherniak. Liblogs is a group of bloggers who support the Liberal Party.

Jim Kalb said...

The 1990 remarks the protesters didn't like can be found here, at the website of a well-known liberal Catholic publication.

bigcitylib said...

Jim,

The Pope blames Galileo for The Bomb? Rather seriously nutzz.

Reality Bites said...

What's hard about creating a profile on blogger? I created one in five minutes when I wanted to comment on blogs, even though I don't have a blog myself. Can't have any kind of decent conversation - including a knock-down, drag-out argument - without a consistent screen name. You can't even troll properly without one.

This - and any other blog - would be greatly improved by not allowing anonymous comments. Someone as environmentally-minded as yourself really shouldn't make readers wade through so much raw sewage.

I guess when they say it's hard what they mean is it's hard to create dozens of them so as not to make it obvious how few in numbers they are.

Reality Bites said...

As a Liberal party member and progressive Roman Catholic I have to say I part company with your sentiments BCL

You may well be progressive. The pope is a bigoted old hate-filled bastard. That's not my fault. It is, however, in part yours. Catholic lay people have allowed their church to turn into an instrument for organized hate-mongering and child abuse. If you're part of the church, you're part of the problem.

Jim Kalb said...

BCL:

The Pope cites a statement from the distinguished physicist and philosopher C. F. von Weizsacker drawing a connection between the direction Galileo took and the A-bomb, says he was surprised when basically the same point was brought up by an interviewer, and goes on to say it would be absurd for Catholic apologists to make too much of such statements.

How does that show he's "seriously nutzz" because he blames Galileo for the A-bomb?

Ti-Guy said...

Catholic lay people have allowed their church to turn into an instrument for organized hate-mongering and child abuse. If you're part of the church, you're part of the problem.

Which is why quite a few of us don't go to Church anymore, or don't give it any money.

The Church gives you no other choice and with the resurgence of fundamentalism, and strident accusations of "cafeteria Catholicism" (intended to demonise you for the exercise of your God-given free will), along with the election of this pre-Vatican II horror of a Pope and the celebration of abysmal Catholics like Kathy Shaidle, it's just gotten worse.

Oh, well. It's not like the Catholic Church ever misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

agent orange said...

You may well be progressive. The pope is a bigoted old hate-filled bastard. That's not my fault. It is, however, in part yours. Catholic lay people have allowed their church to turn into an instrument for organized hate-mongering and child abuse. If you're part of the church, you're part of the problem.

This statement against catholics is so much more offensive than anything Steyn or Levant has ever said agaisnt muslims. Unsurprisingly, Ti-Guy, not known for his consistency or his principles, cheers on the bigoted poster, because instead of quoting some obscure norwegian imam or publishing cartoons, he merely lumped in all catholics in a single group and blamed them for "hate-mongering" and child abuse.

Lets try something out:

Muslim lay people are responsible for Osama bin Laden, by allowing Islam to turn into an instrument for terrorism and anti-semitism. If you're a follower of Islam, you're part of the problem.

*******
Now, the above is obviously a ridiculous statement, and if I published it Im sure BCL and his sad side-kick would have a party to celebrate that I would be hauled before a human rights commission. But substitute "muslim" for "christian", and all of a sudden, as if by magic, my statement goes from being bigoted hate-mongering to enlightened "progressive" discourse.

I say its bigoted hate-mongering all the way in either case.

Anonymous said...

The greatest increase in christianity is in............


that's right continental Africa.

Gee that kinda screws up BCL's identity politics, doesn't it.

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