Saturday, December 03, 2011

Now That's More Like It!

 In an earlier post, I worried that the LPoC might be losing its edge.  Clearly I spoke too soon.  Because Jason Cherniak wants some party functionary I've never heard of to resign, and James Curran wants Jason to resign for wanting that functionary to resign. All over an email asking what LPoC Members might want to discuss at that January convention thingy I'm not going to. 

Yes!  Go Team!  Because if you don't practice on one another, you won't be in shape for 2015.

33 comments:

James Curran said...

Actually I want him to resign for not doing his job as a member of the Management Committee and for the lame excuses he's made on their behalf for not holding a constitutionally designated AGM of the LPC(O).

Just the facts, please said...

Hilarious post . But seriously, that kind of feuding is pretty discouraging. Are you regretting your recent decision, BCL?

bigcitylib said...

Families quarrel. Jason and James have been demanding one another resign from stuff for years. At a certain point, of course, it becomes pathological.

bigcitylib said...

James,

Whatever! Have at 'em!

James Curran said...

Jason has never asked for my resignation. You have to own a position to resign from one. Apparently I'm the anti-Christ so I'm not allowed to have a postion in this party. Jason on the other hand is allowed to abuse his office because he's always right, even though it contradicts the written rule.

Mark Francis said...

This is like the GPC circa 2004-2006. In the end, I got sued. Yes, look for lawsuits.

My biggest lesson learned from those days: The smaller the sandbox, the bigger and pettier the fights.

thescottross.blogspot.com said...

Infighting isn't the problem with the Liberal Party, it's the fact that people spend so much time on it that is our downfall.

In any party there will be infighting, but because we have been doing it for so long and have built te party in response to it, the Liberal Party is France pre-1789.

James Curran said...

Scott, this isn't infighting. This is me saying there's no point of having a PTA and an entire PTA executive if they dont follow their own constitution. The rules guide my argument.

Steve V said...

Boring.

James Curran said...

Yeah. Reminds me of that blog Far and Wide.

Steve V said...

Napoleon complex.

James Curran said...

Cheapshot artist complex! You share a lot of Jason's traits Steve.

Steve V said...

I find it boring, sue me.

James Curran said...

You won't when these same people are running this party when 2015 rolls around....and they will be. Then, maybe then, you'll quit yawning and smell the coffee.

Steve V said...

I hate our party constitution, I hate all the layers of wannabee bureaucracy, I favour anyone who wants to get rid of most it, because these process debates are a continual distraction.

Maybe you're right James, but it just reeks of negative energy "insert cause here" to me. Cheers.

James Curran said...

Its the definition of insanity Steve. We allow the same people to lead the party year after year after year and expect a different result.

Steve V said...

I think we have lots of opportunities to change that come the convention...

James Curran said...

Not really Steve. You have one presidential candidate that was part of the worst quarrel in the history of the party and another that was leader of the LPCO that watched idley as our membership declined yearly from 250000 to 38000 at the time of his departure. Where was he for the renewal then? What's changed?

For VP you have a guy that had the second most powerful position in the party as Co-chair of the COP and did absolutely nothing with it. I can go on for hours.

I don't see the change you're looking for. Especially since leadership will start the day after the convention.

Meir Weinstein said...

It seems clear to me why James Curran has it in for Jason.

James Curran said...

Bullshit Meir. I asked for the entire Management committee's resignation. So eat your hat buddy.

bigcitylib said...

Because he doesn't like lawyers, Meir?

thescottross.blogspot.com said...

James it's a messy topic as there are a few participants.

In general I don't care about the infighting, that's natural. We're a group of people, some of us aren't going to get along. But when infighting is given institutionalized life through our bureaucracy, that's when it's not natural. That's when the party structure isn't helping, it's hindering.

I would love our party to be a party where we don't need to rely 100% on procedures or rules outlining every single eventuality for meetings, nominations, votes, policies, etc. But that's not going to happen, because our membership needs everything outlined to prevent one member from screwing the other.

My reference to members doesn't exclude past leaders either.

Jason Cherniak said...

James is entitled to his opinion, but he is taking it far too far to suggest that I am "abusing my office". I do not benefit financially in any way from the work that I do. Indeed, I spent countless hours volunteering for the Liberal Party when I really should be focusing on my work. While I can take criticism, even calls for my resignation, I will not tolerate personal attacks and libel. James, I demand an apology before I continue engaging with you.

James Curran said...

I assume you know where the courthouse is Jason. So, don't go away mad. Just go away.

James Curran said...

I wonder is Joan Bourassa feels if your facebook post was a personal attack Jason.

Jason Cherniak said...

Jim, I'm not threatening to sue. I asking you to act honourably.

James Curran said...

Well let's check the defining elements of abuse of office Jason.

The Crown Prosecution Service guidelines on this offence say that the elements of the offence are when:

1.A public officer acting as such.
2.Wilfully neglects to perform his duty and/or wilfully misconducts himself.
3.To such a degree as to amount to an abuse of the public's trust in the office holder.
4.Without reasonable excuse or justification.

And, I've asked Maryanne the same question Jason. Did the management committee seek and get approved a date for a 2012 AGM at the Meeting of the Executive Board last weekend in Niagara Falls? If not, I think the committee meets the criteria above.

Jason Cherniak said...

I didn't realize that was what you meant. Are you accusing me of the crime of abuse of office, then? Is that what you want me to respond to?

James Curran said...

Jason, you are a co-accused. Unfortunately, other than Maryanne, you're the only one responding from your committee. I'm saying that the Mgmt. Comm. is failing it's members (the public).

Your non-response to my question means you did not seek and get approved a date (even having been aware that the constitution is breeched beforehand) for a 2012 AGM by the Executive Board of the LPCO when you had a captive audience of said Board.

Omar said...

Man, this comment thread makes me want to vote Liberal so bad I can taste it.

bigcitylib said...

Same here. Tastes a little different than I imagined.

Jason Cherniak said...

Bad taste or not, I think it's necessary to point out that Mr. Curran's accusation is without any foundation. LPC(O) Management members are not office holders as defined by the criminal code and there is no semblance of reality to the claim that we have committed a criminal act.

The general accusation of abuse of office is also without foundation, because we have made decisions for reasons that I have already explained on James' blog. There was no personal gain and, while James is free to disagree, no resulting abuse. He is essentially accusing us of using our offices to obtain personal gain in a malicious and self-interested manner. No such evidence exists and it is real shame that the man is unable to separate political disagreements from vicious and unwarranted personal attacks.

As the publsher, BCL, keep in mind that you are also responsible for what he writes on your blog.

James Curran said...

Jason,
 
Maybe my choice of terms was incorrect. 
 
Sorry, I'm not a lawyer. 
 
And even if I was a lawyer, I wouldn't go around threatening law suits on anyone who disagrees with me or calls me out on statements that I've made or positions that I've held.   
 
I never suggested that you personally profitted from your position on the M.C. (Management Committee).
 
I never stated that you have been involved in any kind of criminal activity either inside or outside your functions as a party official. 
 
What I AM saying is that the entire Management Committee has been neglectful in not convening an Annual General Meeting within the timeframes clearly set out in the Constitution.
 
What I am saying is that the Management Committee has once again been derelict in its duty to call an AGM.
 
What I am saying is that the LPCO is now operating outside of its own Constitution.
 
AND what I am saying is that you, as part of the Management Committee are, in part, responsible for this situation.
 
So don't try to fudge things along and ignore the question.
 
Did the Executive Board or Management Committee set a date for the AGM at its last meeting in Niagara Falls on November 25-27? 
 
YES or NO?
 
Why didn't the MC (Management Committee) call the AGM for November 25-27, instead of an Exec Board Meeting when they still had time to stay within the Constitution?
 
Jason, you may have the greatest explanations and rationale for why you and your committee haven't called an AGM, but all of the excuses and ramblings don't change the fact that the Liberal Party of Canada (Ontario) has not held an AGM since February 2010.   
 
Given the provisions of the Constitution, you and your committee are outside of the 90-day Notice Period for calling an AGM within the required 24 months since the last AGM.
 
If you are going to argue that there are good reasons for not abiding by the Constitution, let's have them. 
 
And they better not be casual opinion or personal observations.
 
You are a lawyer Jason, don't you think that you should be able to come up with some legally defensible and constitutionally justifiable explanation? 
 
Maybe cite some sections of the LPCO Constitution? . . . .  By-Laws?? . . . . errrrr  . . . . . .   Rules of Order???? . . . . . . . . . . . . Customs?????? . . . . . . . . . . .   uuuuhhhhhhhhhh  . . . . . . . . . . . . .  Historical Edicts???????? . . . . . . . . . .  Ancient Tapestries??????????? . . . . . . . . .   Cave Paintings???????????? . . . . . . . . . Anything???????????????????????????
 
Or maybe as I suggested from the very start . . . .  have a shred of integrity and JUST RESIGN!!!
 
If you DO come up with something legitimate, I will certainly reconsider my position.
 
I'm a reasonable kind of guy.