Friday, May 23, 2008

Quit Yer Whinin

The Libs are doing fine. Ahead, in fact, though within the margin, according to Nik Nanos.

(Anyway, if Dion were to quit, as some have suggested, who would replace him? Or would there have to be another long-drawn-out, draining leadership campaign leaving the party rudderless and broke for another two years? Yeah, that would be fun)

17 comments:

Mike said...

Well to be honest, I think you are confusing the term "despite of" rather than "because of" in regards to Dion.

I would imagine that the Libs would be way up and way out of the margin of error with Iggy or Rae at the helm.

Ti-Guy said...

Where did BCL write "despite of?"

I would imagine that the Libs would be way up and way out of the margin of error with Iggy or Rae at the helm.

Not with Iggy. Most Liberals I know (longtime, committed Liberals) were preparing to move on to other, greener pastures in the event of an Iggy victory.

Francesco said...

gents there is no use to ponder what if scenarios...wtf..dion is our leader and that's that...if you want to ponder thoughts and opinions on rae or ignatieff sit down and do chants or something in our own spare time and not out in public (i did support ignatieff at the convention for full disclosure)

also just think what the conservatives are thinking when then see polls after their time in leadership with a weak and ineffective opposition due to necessary rebuilding going on (my concern is that teh rebuilding and renewal is not occurring) they must be crapping in their pants...

RuralSandi said...

Interesting - I know "many" people who said if Rae won - they would go somewhere else. I'm not kidding here - I'm talking many, many.

Is this hate Iggy campaign ever going to stop?

Is this hate Rae campaign ever going to stop?

Lynne

RuralSandi said...

From Lynne - please ignore the RuralSandi thing - I borrowed her computer (dropped in for coffee) - mine needs repair.

Ti-Guy said...

I'm not kidding here - I'm talking many, many.

I lived through Bob Rae's Ontario (and worked with, but not for, the government) and I remember the ill-will that was drummed up at the time regarding his inability to save Ontario from an economic downturn he didn't start and couldn't have stopped...not as a New Democrat, anyway.

I do know that the biggest whiners only shut up when they were laid off by the Harrisites a year or so later.

I don't know (nor really care, about quite frankly) what continues to motivate this and I don't take insider gossip very seriously at all (although I'll float this bit...the Rae government really did prize ideological commitment far more than it did actual talent). I remember the internecine squabbles that disabused me of the illusion of NDP solidarity, especially when I was first exposed to the sentiment that "the Left eats its own/its young," in a way that it almost seemed to delight in. I had never been a leftist (and am still not) and had never come across that before.

Admittedly, these are just impressions. I was too busy doing my job at the time to really pay that much attention, and then, by pure chance, left Canada just before the shit hit the fan.

Reality Bites said...

I don't know that it prized committment over talent. It's that the talent wasn't there. This is what happens when a party unprepared to govern finds itself in power. A current example is the Conservative government. The Liberals may well find themselves in the same position after the next election.

Ti-Guy said...

You have a point RB, but the entire Ontario civil service and employees of other public institutions didn's turn over when the NDP came to power.

I remember being advised to incorpoate "empowerment" and "social justice" into an RFP for an entirely technical project. How I managed to escape denunciation and/or re-education when I balked remains something I only dimly remember. I think a sense of humour helped, or maybe it was because it was during that period that I learned to simply say "ok" and then do what I had intended anyway.

jaybird said...

Ti-Guy: the idea of the NDP eating its own is fairly rich coming from a Liberal activist. This is something that the LPC seems to have a copyright on (oh maybe I shouldn't bring up copyright and net neutrality since LPC is on the side of big biz and not consumer/users on these topics). Anyhooo - I wasn't particularly happy with Rae mainly because he governed like a Liberal and not an NDPer. But he now says that he really was always a Liberal (something many of us always suspected).

Ti-Guy said...

Like I care what you think. The screaming from hissy Dippers never stops. It started the day Rae got elected, got louder throughout the Harris years (from what I've been told) diminished slightly towards the end of Eves's term, stopped the day Dalton McGuinty was elected, and then started the day after.

I don't like the Liberals cozying up to corporate power either; If someone has a *new* solution that eliminates the power abuses of wealthy entities against government, democracy and society in general, I'm all ears. Poltical financing reform would be a good place to start, and hopefully, we'll elect a government soon that gets the ball rolling on that. Oh right, we already did...a Liberal one.

Here's some advice for Dippers; think about helping your party win an election instead of screaming at fellow Canadians all the time.

Anyway, off to troll Flogging a Dead Horse. Pay it forward, I say...

jaybird said...

Ti-Guy: every once in awhile I can get a little hissy but I read your responses fairly regularly and you are in a perpetual fit of pique with everyone (cons, dippers and sometimes libs). My comments about Rae were not particularly nasty and certainly not directed against you. And you gotta admit that there is a fairly long and comprehensive history of LPC internecine battles. That is more fact that opinion. Anyway, sorry that you seem to always be so angry, hope you have a nice weekend.

Ti-Guy said...

Sorry. I'll try harder next time, I promise.

Have a nice weekend too.

Reality Bites said...

Seems funny to see people arguing over whether the Liberals or the NDP are more prone to eating their own when the Conservatives are infamous for it.

Demosthenes said...

If Dion were to quit, the Tories would just find another talking point to beat the new guy up with. With Rae it'd be "socialist", with Iggy "elitist".

The Liberals haven't learned what the Dems did at great cost: there's no such thing as a leader that's immune to Swiftboating.

Reality Bites said...

It's true any Liberal leader would be attacked. But I do think some other politicians might be better at setting and selling their own agenda than Dion.

Powell lucas said...

When a party leader rates at 10% on a poll asking who is the most qualified to lead the country, I would suggest a rethink. Or, failing that, a lemming-like mass charge to the sea.

Ti-Guy said...

Shorter Powell Lucas: *burp*