Saturday, October 12, 2013

Birds And Turbines, Part Bazillion

A new study, "Canadian Estimate of Bird Mortality Due to Collisions and Direct Habitat Loss Associated with Wind Turbine Developments” came out earlier this month.  Its conclusion should be entirely unsurprising: on  average a Canadian turbine will kill about 8.2 birds per year, or about 23,200 in total. That's a largish sounding number, but its trivial when compared to the  100 and 350 million birds killed by feral/house-cats every year, or the 25 million killed by colliding with Canadian windows.  Or, really compared to any major source of bird mortality you can name.  Which is why anti-wind forces have essentially struck out when playing the "bird blender" card before the ERT (Ontario Environmental Review Tribunal). See, for example, here.

15 comments:

UU4077 said...

Wind turbines are, however, a real problem for bats. And, even though bats are a vital part of our ecosystem, I doubt anti-wind advocates would bother trying to save flying rodents.

Paul Kuster said...

I agree with UU4077.Except for the fact we anti-turbine types do care about bats since these are migratory bat species and tend to feed on mosquitoes that carry West Nile virus. Here's a link to show the rather unpleasant way bats are killed;
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=wind-turbines-kill-bats

As for the silly cat arguement regarding birds, we're talking about cats normally taking species that # in the "bazillions" and are likely taking the older or sickly of them. I have yet to see cats take down apex predator birds such as eagles ,hawks,owls etc.which turbines do. And as a further joke, it's the wind developers reporting the avian mortality with terrible methodology. As for office towers, there is a process out to add film to the glass that would lower these #'s. At least they're trying. As for powerlines, we're seeing turbines developments that are requiring hundreds of km's of powerlines to connect amonst themselves and to the grid.
I guess you're ok with turbines joining in a race to the bottom as to what species is killed and how many.

Ian Forrester said...

Paul Kuster said:

"As for powerlines, we're seeing turbines developments that are requiring hundreds of km's of powerlines to connect amonst themselves and to the grid. "

Just where are you seeing this? I have been to wind-farms in Western Canada and the UK and have seen photos of lots of other wind farms and not a power line in sight, at least not connecting the turbines or the wind-farm. the only ones you see are usually transmitting power from coal fired power stations since they have been there for years and years.

Why do you wind farm haters always have to lie?

Paul Kuster said...

No lie Ian- Just go to the Enbridge development at Underwood and see all the interconnecting lines. Go to the Melancthon development and see the extra lines there. Dufferin Wind is attempting to gain approval for around a 30km transmission line above ground to hook up to the main grid. I could go on all day Ian but to just call me a liar is just getting tiresome when coming from the intellectually lazy.

Paul Kuster said...

Here's another reasonably balanced article;
http://www.kcet.org/news/rewire/commentary/death-data-why-tracking-dead-wildlife-at-renewable-energy-sites-is-important.html

Ian Forrester said...

Paul Kuster is delusional. Here is a photo from the Melancthon wind facility.

http://tinyurl.com/kkesn6l

Where are all the HT wires he is complaining about?

I stand by my assessment of him being a liar. Prove me wrong by showing me all the wires coming from each turbine. I can assure you that certainly in Alberta, there are no wires and there appears to be no wires at the site you claim has "hundreds of Kms of wires.

Why do you wind farm haters always have to lie?

Dan Wrightman said...

Here is a news article on the 230 KV transmission line that Dufferin Wind has to build. http://www.orangeville.com/news-story/4135814-dufferin-wind-unable-to-meet-fit-start-up-date/

In the London area Nextera is putting up 32 km of high voltage 30m high transmission lines on the County road allowances.
http://www.lfpress.com/2013/09/19/middlesex-county-safeguarding-taxpayers-against-extra-costs

If you're going to call people liars Ian you better be sure you have your facts.

Ian Forrester said...

I will leave the wind farm haters in their delusional state since it unlikely that they will see reason.

Not hundreds but 24 Km's between Melancthon and Amaranth.

You may call it exaggeration to say "hundreds" I call it lying because you are both trying to deceive.

Paul Kuster said...

Ian- Don't run away. Where did I ever say hundreds of KM of lines just in the Melancthon development? I said "turbine developments that are requiring hundreds of km's of powerlines to connect amongst themselves AND to the grid." Include in all this the third transmission line that connects schizophrenic wind power from Huron/Bruce wind dev's at Bruce nuclear to Milton. There's no deception here. Have a look at this article talking about what transmission lines are required for Dufferin Wind. http://www.citizen.on.ca/news/2013-08-01/Front_Page/DWP_applies_for_expropriation_of_easements_for_tra.html

It's no different for the NextEra project near Seaforth where NextEra got the approval and are now scrambling to find a way to get the power to the grid. Cart, meet horse.

http://www.seaforthhuronexpositor.com/2012/06/20/questions-persist-about-nexteras-bluewater-project

Finally from Alberta, we have Heidi Eijgel who with Pembina Inst. came to Ontario to push the wind turbine story here. She stated that she herself fought to have transmission lines buried because they were "ugly". That was accomodated. Here in Ont., we're told it's too expensive and legally they don't have to do it, so they won't. That's why transmission lines are pertinent here in Ont. and perhaps not elsewhere.
Perhaps you might want to look around and consider whose really in the state of delusion. Enjoy your Thanksgiving eating crow..er..turkey.


Matthew Day said...

Why would anybody want to describe themselves as 'anti wind turbine'? What's next, anti ball-bearings? Anti ball point pen? It is a suite of technologies, that work in some circumstances and not in others. The risks are lower than many alternatives, and for locations that have zero local electricity production, they reduce the load on the Grid dramatically by reducing the need for long distance power transmission via the grid. Most people do not understand that approx. 20% of electricity generated is lost when transmitted long distances. (That humming sound you hear near power lines is electricity being lost through entropy). Sure there are costs, but there are real benefits too.

Ian Forrester said...

Paul Kuster get real. There are wooden pole transmission lines all over rural Canada. Where do those dairy farmers get their electricity from? Do you think that some one sprinkles pixie dust over their farms and it is magically transformed into electricity?

Good grief there is more misinformation spread about wind farms than the tobacco industry spread around showing the supposed safety of their products.

Paul Kuster said...

Matthew- I say "anti-wind turbine" since it's the venacular that the pro-wind turbine zealots like to call us . The large wind developments get hooked up to the main grid, hence the distances 230 kv transmission lines from the Melancthon and Dufferin wind (north Melancthon)and others (NextEra) have to go. They don't supply locally unless the turbine development is quite small ( <10mw nameplate). Ian- sorry but you're embarrassing yourself now. It's obvious you have no interest reading links that Dan and I provided. The mind is like a parachute, works best when open. Bye.

Ian Forrester said...

And bye to idiots like you who are hindering progress towards a healthier world.

Dan Wrightman said...

Ian, 30m (100') high 230kv transmission lines are strung on metal towers not wood, and they are tapping in to either the Bruce-Milton or Bruce-Longwood 500kv lines so the power is supplying the GTA not the local grid.

Dan Wrightman said...

How many Bald Eagles have been killed by cats? Lets refine the question further, how many Bald Eagle nests have been destroyed by cats? Now, how many active Bald Eagle nests in southern Ontario have been destroyed to accommodate a wind turbine?
So far one and counting.
Remember the Bald Eagle is a Species at Risk and there were only 57 active nests in southern Ontario in 2011 according to Bird Studies Canada.
http://ontario-wind-resistance.org/