Thursday, November 05, 2009

Gruending On The Gun Registry: Sask. A Bit Like Kansas

I have considerable experience in the trenches on the guns issue. I was a candidate in four federal elections in mixed urban-rural constituencies in Saskatchewan and the gun registry featured in every one of those campaigns. In 1997, I was a candidate in Saskatoon-Humboldt, the area where I was born and raised. One day I was campaigning in a small town that was clearly suffering from the rural economic crisis. The rail line had been removed and the two tall grain elevators at the head of Main Street were being dismantled. The town’s business buildings were shabby and much of the housing stock was run down. I came upon a man who was backing his truck out of a driveway. He recognized me and said that he knew my sister. “I haven’t got much time,” he said. “I just want to know one thing. What is your position on gun control?” I asked him if that issue was more important to him in an election than the fact that his town had lost its rail line and its grain elevator. “You bet it is,” he said. I lost that election by 221 votes to the Reform Party candidate.

Gruending argues that progressives should prevent a "moral alternative to the gun toting crowd". Maybe because its early and I'm coming down with a cold, but I have no idea what this would entail (and I note Mr. Gruending doesn't go into detail). My own opinion is that you pass the legislation that conscience demands and stand behind it until the furor dies down, and the "wedge" loses it point. Worked, more or less, with metrication (although its worth pointing out that the Tories tried to screw that up as well).

26 comments:

CanadianSense said...

So we agree the MP must be attuned to the concerns of the constituents and his party may lose the riding by imposing a one size fits all platform?

Robert McClelland said...

Obviously you don't agree with that, CanadianNonSense. Otherwise you'd be livid that Conservative MPs in urban ridings didn't vote in line with what their constituents wanted. That urban/rural nonsense you rubes are peddling cuts both ways.

CanadianSense said...

RM,

I don't have an Agenda on idealogy. It was a bad policy that made NO sense.

It made some Urban MP's in some parties feel good they were doing something. Optics vs substance.

No facts or studies to back up your agruement the Registry does what advocates claim. Links please.

Filling out forms, collecting fees from small urban, rural Canadians made ZERO sense.

Present some "FACTS" to make your case.

Try an adult conversation how the registry is effective.

Looking forward to hearing your talking points.

bigcitylib said...

CS,

And of course all those police officers have been lying.

CanadianSense said...

Can you show me a study of Police Officers (front line)that support the registry?

I am familiar with Police Chiefs that support it.

FrankD said...

Some police officers were for it. Others thought the money would have been better spent on other things, like more police officers.

bigcitylib said...

Actually, I have never seen evidence of an actual police officer that was against it, only Tory assurances that they were out there.

CanadianSense said...

So no one can fairly use the statement the front line police officers support the gun registry?

No empirical data to support the registry?

Someone must have a study that shows the Billions spent was a good idea.

austin said...

Last time I checked we did not make laws in this country that target law abiding citizens just because the police 'like it'.

bigcitylib said...

No, CS, I haven't read of an identified actual officer that's come out against it.

And as for a report about the registry being a good idea, it might be the one Van Loan is suppressing:

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2009/11/is-he-sitting-on-it.html

Gayle said...

"Can you show me a study of Police Officers (front line)that support the registry?"

Can you find one where they don't?

See, the police are represented by the Chiefs - and they support it. You are suggesting the Chiefs do not represent the rank and file. Do you have any evidence to substantiate that claim? Otherwise it is safe to rely on the Chiefs.

I note that the CPC have anecdotal quotes from some police officers who do not support the registry. Therefore it is safe to believe they are not afraid to speak out. It just seems that only a few have done so, which then leads me to conclude that is because the majority of the rank and file support their Chiefs - unless, of course, you have some evidence they don't.

Also, I could not help but notice how you totally contradicted yourself in your reply to Robert. In your first post you insist MP's must represent the wishes of their constituents, and then when faced with the example of the CPC MP's in urban ridings failure to do that, you suggest they do not have to represent the interests of the people in their riding because you do not like the registry.

Gayle said...

BCL - you do not have to prove a negative. If he is asserting the rank and file do not support the registry, let him prove it.

CanadianSense said...

As per our adult conversation looking for empirical evidence why $ 2 Billion was spent I am told a "report" being held up by the current government is going to justify the Bad Policy instituted before they came to power?

Really?

The CPC are always asked to provide evidence, studies when they make changes to anything by the opposition.

Why is it unfair to ask those who support and passed the Gun Registry to provide their evidence for review?

I can't find any empiricial evidence to support the gun registry. Do you have any?

Ti-Guy said...

BCL - you do not have to prove a negative. If he is asserting the rank and file do not support the registry, let him prove it.

The day a wingnut does that is the day I drop dead.

The moral alternative Gruending is talking about is the promotion of safety and security through crime prevention, crime reduction and economic security. But I doubt that'll be persuasive because what's left of rural society is intellectually, morally and spiritually bankrupt.

Remember, most of these people aren't engaged in traditionally rural activities. They commute of telecommute to the city or run small, mostly trivial businesses like pet grooming or titty bars or live on pensions. Their only pastimes are drinking, hunting critters and railing about urban issues that have nothing to do with them.

austin said...

It will be an interesting report to see. Not releasing it certainly raises questions but I have a hard time believing it will change people's opinions.

CanadianSense said...

TG,

What time do you starting drinking?

Ti-Guy said...

TG,

What time do you starting drinking?


The minute you show up.

CanadianSense said...

TG,

Cheers!

Jim said...

bigcitylib said...
Actually, I have never seen evidence of an actual police officer that was against it, only Tory assurances that they were out there.

You want an individual officer that has spoke out against the registry? How about Julian Fantino.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/10/06/f-gun-registry.html

"Others who doubt the efficiency of the gun registry include Toronto police Chief Julian Fantino, who says the program
would neither prevent crimes nor help solve them."

Here are a few more individual officers opinions...

http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/2009/04/what_police_have_said_about_the_gun_registry.html

Want more rank and file officers against it?

Feel free to search out the views of the Manitoba Police Association, the Saskatchewan Federation of Police Officers, the Calgary Polica Association, the Edmonton Police Association...and there are other as well.

But alas, I am tired of countering claims from idiots like Gayle that claim these officers and their opinions do not exist. Put your head back in the sand Gayle.

Ti-Guy said...

You want an individual officer that has spoke out against the registry? How about Julian Fantino.

Do you even know who Julian Fantino is? He's the most morally-depraved policeman in Canada. He'll say anything if he thinks it'll improve his political profile.

CanadianSense said...

TG,

how many drinks are you up to now?

No adult conversation with reasons to support why Liberals should have whipped their MP on C-391?

I hope the drinking helps.

Cheers!

lance said...

Gayle said, "Can you find one where they don't?"

Not a "study", but it does show that not all Police Chiefs, or Officers are on-board with the registry.

Candice Hoeppner's Media release

- Delaney Chisholm, New Glasgow Chief of Police commented: “I share your concerns and I am on the Nova Scotia Chiefs Executive, and have asked them not to support the legislation for
registering of long-guns.”'

- “As the Chief of the Winkler Police Service I would like to offer my support for Bill C-391,” said Chief Rick Hiebert. “The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police does not speak for all active police chiefs when supporting the long-gun registry. I personally believe it is time to put an end to the long-gun registry and use that money to focus on criminals and illegal gun activity.”

- Robert H.D. Head, Assistant Commissioner (rtd.), RCMP said: “As a life member of the Canadian
Association of Chiefs of Police, I have watched with interest their endorsement of the long-gun
firearms registry since it was first introduced in the House of Commons as Bill C-68. At that time,
it was reported that Bill C-68 was wholeheartedly endorsed by the CACP. Nothing could have
been further from the truth. Although the Chiefs did have majority support, it was far from wholehearted’. At that time and apparently continuing to this day, their endorsement seems more political than practical. Members of Parliament from all political parties have an opportunity to right a wrong and support Bill C-391. Let us all hope that they have the intestinal fortitude to act accordingly.”

I left out the anonymous Cpl.

Cheers,
lance

Gayle said...

Yes Lance - that is why I said this:

"I note that the CPC have anecdotal quotes from some police officers who do not support the registry. Therefore it is safe to believe they are not afraid to speak out. It just seems that only a few have done so, which then leads me to conclude that is because the majority of the rank and file support their Chiefs - unless, of course, you have some evidence they don't."

Still waiting for Jim to provide proof that "any" patrol officer will tell you they do not like the registry. Surely there must be a poll out there somewhere if it is true they oppose what their chiefs are telling them???

Jim said...

Gayle, you are thick as a post.

It really doesn't matter anymore.

The registry will die, no doubt.

Go find another windmill to tilt at. Or better yet, get a job.

Gayle said...

You know Jim, calling me names instead of backing up your statements does not make you look smart.

Quite the opposite actually.

I would be careful about the angry outbursts though - if you need anger management they might have to just come and take your guns away.

I know you do not have the integrity to concede when you are wrong, but you and I both know you are. Let's leave it at that.

Cheers

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