Twice as many Canadians (59 per cent) say the registration of rifles and shotguns should be maintained compared to those who say it should be scrapped (27 per cent). In every province but Manitoba and Saskatchewan more people support the registry than oppose it. The poll also shows that women support the gun registry (66 per cent) compared to men (51 per cent). More people living with gun owners (47 per cent) support the registry than oppose it (36 per cent) and a substantial proportion of gun owners (36 per cent) actually support the registry (versus 59 per cent opposed). The opponents may be louder and better financed, but among households with guns in Canada, votes are almost evenly split. Many politicians from rural areas seem to forget that women vote too.All right, the
Coalition for Gun Control commissioned the poll, but the detailed results are
here, and to these non-expert eyes the questions don't look like they've been torqued. Its also a pretty big (1,506) sample. Maybe, as D-Day gets draws closer (bill C-391
may be up for a June vote), minds are beginning to focus, and change.
Food for thought, anyhow.
37 comments:
People support the gun registry, by a fairly wide margin in Alberta? Ya okay. Sheesh, at least try to make it sound somewhat believable.
I heard you were off camping, spoilsport.
One point... if you eliminate the regionalism rehetoric (steel cage match: rural vs. urban; Toronto elites vs. the good working man from out West)... if people are told to consider the issue at hand, it's possible they may come up with a different response than when an issue is connected to a regional identity.
This isn't the first poll I've seen where people living with a gunowner supports a form of gun control more so than the people with the guns. Always find this sadly amusing because it implies something about the relationship these people are in.
I'm back ;) There were two polls done last November, when we last visited this issue. Both showed solid rejection of the registry, and both were "independent". Surprisingly, the urban/rural split wasn't as pronounced as people thought, with urban votes split on the question. IMHO, it's a little hard to believe that the numbers have reversed in such a massive way. Couple that with the insane Alberta finding, and I see this poll as propaganda, not something I would rely on in a tactical sense. Just my opinion, but this one has a bad odor.
The link to the poll report isn't working. Did the NRA hack it? It would be irresponsible not to speculate...
Leger is a reputable polling company. Even if a group who supports the gun registry commissioned them to do this type of poll, I highly doubt Leger would "spike" their sampling in order to give them a favourable result.
Scott
So you actually believe that Albertans now favor the gun registry? Forget the Leger defence nonsense, just look at the numbers and if you don't see a red flag or two, then your political antenna is up an orfice. Just saying :)
Alberta supporting the registry? I have to agree with Steve, something wrong with that finding.
One thing they did with the poll is that they didn't call it the "long-gun registry."
The question was posed as this:
Question 2- Recently, new legislation was introduced to eliminate the need to register rifles and shotguns. While licenses to own are renewed periodically, registration is a onetime only procedure that occurs when a gun is purchased. A lot of money was spent setting up the system, but the current cost of registering rifles and shotguns is three million dollars a year. Some people say that registration ensures gun owners are accountable for their firearms and that the registry is an important tool used daily."
The long-gun registry is associated with like "billion dollar costs" and "boondoggle." That thing in question two almost seems reasonable. Sort of reminds me of the health care debate in the US, where some people would oppose health care reform until they found out what exactly they were opposing.
Thanks sharronapple, I figured the wording of the survey had something to do with it.
Never looked at the latest AG reports, so the registry only costs $3 million/year to maintain? Not bad, especially when you remember that Harper blew $5 million on EAP commercials during the Olympics. $3 million is pocket change in Ottawa.
I never liked how bill C-68 made it non-compliance a criminal offense, or how they tried to pin the entire cost on the gun owners. But I always thought the long-gun registry was the proper policy in spirit.
I still have hope a sensible solution will come about, though the way the Harper government works I don't count on that.
Actually the poll question is torqued and does not actually indicate support for the gun registry. The question talks about the legislation put in, of which the registry is one part. At the end of the question it should have been, "do support the removing of registering long guns from this legislation."
Many people may have supported the question because of the safety test requirement, or the storing secure and unloaded requirement, or the ban on certain military type weapons.
That question does not specifically ask if you support the gun registry. It asks if you support a broader legislation of which the registry is one component.
I never liked how bill C-68 made it non-compliance a criminal offense, or how they tried to pin the entire cost on the gun owners
It's not unreasonable to deal with those issue. Hopefully, the debate will move from the extremes to a more rational discussion about the issues....
The question talks about the legislation put in, of which the registry is one part. At the end of the question it should have been, "do support the removing of registering long guns from this legislation."
....
That question does not specifically ask if you support the gun registry. It asks if you support a broader legislation of which the registry is one component.
Actually, doesn't the second question, the one noted in my previous post, ask about the registry? Instead of calling them long-guns, they're noted as rifles and shotguns. Scroll down a bit.
Wingnuts off the blog, Reid. If you're concerned about accuracy, go mentor a few of your Boggin' Toree pals and then we'll talk.
"Never looked at the latest AG reports, so the registry only costs $3 million/year to maintain?"
Ask yourself why it is you didn't know that. I've known that for years.
I'm not being confrontational, by the way. It's just frustrating how rather straightforward matters of fact are little known by the general public.
To answer you Ti, the issue wasn't on my radar until recently.
However I understand you were asking that in a broader sense, the CPC certainly doesn't want the public to know that the long-gun registry costs are now quite reasonable. It blows their whole "its a waste of taxpayer's money" argument to kingdom-come.
Couldn't the numbers be changing because of the backlash after the 2nd vote on dismantling the registry? The police have been pretty vocal recently on why they want it maintained.
As for Alberta, maybe they only asked people who live in my riding. :)
Actually, the Coalition for Gun Control is supposed to be issuing some kind of official statement re the Alberta numbers at some point soon.
First off, let me say I am in favour of scrapping the registry, but the question contains five elements, one of which deals with the registry. I agree with everything else in the question, as would most reasonable citizens, but have a HUGE problem with the registry, so in general, I would somewhat agree. The question should have been, "Do you support scrapping the gun registry?" Just sayin....
I agree with everything else in the question, as would most reasonable citizens, but have a HUGE problem with the registry,
So in other words, you agree with everything about the registry except the registry.
Have I got that right?
No, you don't got it right. The Leger & Leger poll speaks of a "law increasing the controls on firearms" RTFQ. Registry is only one element. I agree with the other elements. Not the registry. From the act, Bill C-68, "This enactment establishes a licensing system for persons wishing to possess firearms." Later on, it adds, "In addition to licensing persons, the enactment also establishes a system for the registration of all firearms." It is not the "Gun Registry Act".
So if I dont agree with you Lonesome Jim does that make me an unreasonable citizen?
Still trying to figure out that marshmallow of a statement you made.
The Leger & Leger poll speaks of a "law increasing the controls on firearms" RTFQ.
Sorry, Tex. It wasn't clear to me what five elements you were referring to and it was more fun making my snarky remark than it was trying to figure it out.
Reid said...
Actually the poll question is torqued and does not actually indicate support for the gun registry. The question talks about the legislation put in, of which the registry is one part. At the end of the question it should have been, "do you support the removing of registering long guns from this legislation."
Absolutely. If you want an honest answer, you have to ask an honest question. The people at the Coalition for Gun Control Make their living lobbying for more and more gun control (are they still getting taxpayer funding from Toronto?), so it is no surprise that they would ask leading questions...
Steve V said...
People support the gun registry, by a fairly wide margin in Alberta? Ya okay. Sheesh, at least try to make it sound somewhat believable.
That's what happens when True Believers commission polls on their favorite topic. It never, ever occurs to them that anyone might *not* believe what they believe, sadly.
2006 article on polls with 51% of Albertans favouring keeping a registry: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=8970d8ef-fd15-4e90-9253-cd7170536b57&k=35147
Remember that Alberta's population is mostly urban.
Still, Calgary's police chief doesn't think the registry prevents violent crime.
http://calgary.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100426/CGY_gun_registry_100426/20100426/?hub=CalgaryHome
He doesn't mention, though, whether it affects the number of domestic murders or suicides.
"That's what happens when True Believers commission polls on their favorite topic."
ie. any poll conducted by the Manning Institute.
It's interesting the people who actually own guns are opposed to the registry,people who don't are in favor. And this says what ?
I wonder where the poll was done,urban area or rural or a mixture ?
Like please, surely no body believe a registry makes us safer or some how it would or could have prevent the Montreal massacre.
I guess I am in the minority (well at least according to this meaningless poll)But someone has yet to explain to me how spending hundreds of millions on a registry is worthy ,money that could & should be spent on programs/social service that actual contribute to our well being.
Whats the tab to-date for this nonsense, one billion and counting.
Absolutely. If you want an honest answer, you have to ask an honest question.
Scroll down and check out the second question on the survey. It talks about the long-gun registry without calling it the long-gun registry.
I guess I am in the minority (well at least according to this meaningless poll)But someone has yet to explain to me how spending hundreds of millions on a registry is worthy ,money that could & should be spent on programs/social service that actual contribute to our well being.
Well, money spent can't be unspent. At this point the annual costs are $3 million at this point. Anyway, whatever savings would probably just end up being funneled into advertising for the Economic Action Plan ($5 million during the Olympics alone). ;)
Hey Dirk why don't we get rid of cops. By your logic since crimes don't happen most of the time they are an outrageous boondoggle.
And come to think about it Dirk, how about the fire department. I mean it's not like buildings are on fire all the time so think of all those wasted tax dollars.
/rolls eyes
Like please, surely no body believe a registry makes us safer or some how it would or could have prevent the Montreal massacre.
Guess you need to talk to the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians to show them the light.
Seems the wingnuts have jumped on this "the registry doesn't make us safer" trope like a crow on a junebug.
What database makes anyone safer? What in fact prevents anything bad, either by accident or deliberately, from ever happening at all?
The wingnuts think this is a killer observation, but it is fact, just a dramatic distraction.
At this point, I'm all for letting the Saskkkalbertans have as many guns as they want of any type they want. Then seal the borders. Since the homicide rates in those provinces are much higher than in other provinces, I'm sure we'll see a drop shortly thereafter.
Problem...solved!
What database makes anyone safer?
Exactly, the national sex offender list doesn't prevent crimes either. Using CPofC logic, we must scrap that too.
Exactly, the national sex offender list doesn't prevent crimes either.
The only thing that prevents a crime from happening is removing any incentive to commit a crime in the first place. And even then, there are never any guarantees.
The right wing approach to law and order is equivalent to closing the barn door after the horse has fled. Small comfort to everyone, most of all the victims, which they claim the rest of us don't give a shit about.
Gene wrote..."Hey Dirk why don't we get rid of cops. By your logic since crimes don't happen most of the time they are an outrageous boondoggle.
And come to think about it Dirk, how about the fire department. I mean it's not like buildings are on fire all the time so think of all those wasted tax dollars"...
wtf,dude you are going to have to explain your "logic" here,sorry but it makes no sense.
Ti-guy wrote..."Seems the wingnuts have jumped on this "the registry doesn't make us safer" trope like a crow on a junebug"..
so I am a wingnut? lol anyway ti-guy so explain to me the purpose of the long-gun registry.
It quite telling you all attack my logic, but not ONE of you can explain the purpose/need for this data-base and why you feel its worth a billion +.
Thank god at least 8 Liberal MP's and 12 NDP MP's get it.Hopefully this stupid "issue" will be put to bed come June
sharronapple 88 wrote..."Guess you need to talk to the Canadian Association of Emergency Physicians to show them the light"...
So let me get this straight forcing people to registering their long-guns will prevent them from committing suicide ? After all of all the gun deaths 72 percent where suicides.
Seems to me suicides the problem not guns,perhaps spending the money on suicide prevention programs would be more affective,just saying...
You going to have to better people.Look I dislike the Conservatives but on this issue they do have a point,i.e the money spent on this registry is a waste.It can and should be spent more wisely on programs and services that actually have some bearing on our,and the country's well being
Ti-guy wrote..."What database makes anyone safer? What in fact prevents anything bad, either by accident or deliberately, from ever happening at all?
The wingnuts think this is a killer observation, but it is fact, just a dramatic distraction"...
Are you actually listening to what the pro gun registry crowd are saying,in fact they ARE saying the registry makes us safer.That WHY I and other take issue,because such assertions are nonsense.
The Liberals use that line of "logic" all the time that all the time in fact one of the other pro-registry commentators linked to the
Cnd Association of Emergency Physicians they say..."long gun registry saves lives"
Dirk I was just basing my statement on your logic. I mean if there's no crime going on most of the time then the police are just another tax boondoggle. Same for the fire department. Why should I pay taxes if buildings arent burning around me all the time?
so I am a wingnut? lol anyway ti-guy so explain to me the purpose of the long-gun registry.
Dirk, I wasn't responding to you. I didn't read your comment.
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