For those who think the Tories won't take a hit for this (yeah you Grumpy one) during a Fall/Spring election campaign, Canadians expect their government to do more than simply ride the ups and downs of the business cycle. That's why the deficits Ernie Eves revealed in his last budgets cost the Ontario Conservatives so heavily. It was though there had been all this pain for zero pay-off.
And I would remind people that, after 9/11 the U.S. economy slid briefly into recession while the Canadian economy, due to some steady economic helmsmanship by Chretien and Co., did not.
In this country Conservatives have to earn the title of "fiscally responsible". It is not given them by default.
29 comments:
I agree with your statement, but why are the Liberals reticent to set the record straight on the conservative economic record, on which they are riding high in the polls at the moment?
If there really is going to be an election, the Liberals need to start the narrative now on dismantling that illusion. You don't wait for the writ to drop and then have everything stated in the context of an election. You start beforehand, and then work on expanding the argument during the campaign.
Polls already show the Liberals run the risk of being considered the one-trick pony with the environment green shift.
The Liberals need to dampen the conservative support on the economy 1) to gain ground in that area of voter concern and 2) to dampen Harper's attacks on the green shift.
As it is now, Harper is using his "respect" on economic issues to raise fears the green shift will harm Canada economically. Lower his appeal and diffuse the fears he raises. And, as added benefit, raise the Liberal profile on the economy.
In this country Conservatives have to earn the title of "fiscally responsible". It is not given them by default.
It's a myth anyway. Conservatives are not fiscally responsible. What they are good at doing is pandering to their base's paranoid, mean-spirited sense of injustice (someone, somehwere is always getting a free ride at their expense) and counting on its inability to do the simplest math involved in comparing costs (contracts in the billions to private enterprise are a much smaller financial commitment than a 3,000$ grant to fund the Toronto Hippies Against Depilatories annual Hirsute-a-Palooza).
Let's all remember the outrageous deficits of Mulroney, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and the Harrisites. Fiscal Conservatism is an oxymoron.
BCL: could you also remind people that it was Dion and his caucus that allowed Harper's misguided budget to pass. Crying foul now that there is a deficit is a day late and dollar short IMHO.
I would also remind you that Paul Wells did an interesting comment on why the Dion Liberals are perfectly happy to see the fed government's fiscal capacity shrink.
Progressives who vote Liberal really need to decide whether they are truly interested in a progressive agenda or whether what they really want is to be pandered to with a progressive media strategy only to be screwed by a regressive legislative reality when Liberals have power.
Oh and BTW - the vaunted liberal surplus could be attributed in large part screwing unemployed Canadians by limiting access to EI, and the downloading of responsibilities to lower levels of governments, and screwing provinces on transfer payments. We could also add that by not funding all their election promises (daycare promised for 13yrs never delivered) or actually implementing policy to meet Kyoto targets, the Chretien/Martin Libs left lots of money in the kitty.
but why are the Liberals reticent to set the record straight on the conservative economic record, on which they are riding high in the polls at the moment?
Joseph: It won't matter how often the Liberals say it if the corporate media (salivating at the prospect of privatising...ie. stealing...public property and hoping for generous contracts and out-sourcing of public services) won't report it.
BCL: could you also remind people that it was Dion and his caucus that allowed Harper's misguided budget to pass.
BCL: Could you remind Jaybird that it was the Dippers who managed to bring us the Harpies in the first place, who then proceeded to try to remove the Liberals "from the game board," and who've wasted two years sinking themselves into greater (and lamentable) irrelevance?
Progressives who vote Liberal really need to decide whether they are truly interested in a progressive agenda or whether what they really want is to be pandered to with a progressive media strategy only to be screwed by a regressive legislative reality when Liberals have power.
Progressives who vote Liberal need to decide how much more distraction they need from a confused and aimless party of bitter social democrats who think appealing to the electorate is a secondary consideration and need to figure out, once and for all, that making common cause with people who despise them and always will is no way to move forward.
Political Liberalism is a compromise between social democracy and business and the socialists are dreaming in technocolour if they think that's going to change radically anytime soon.
Christ, call the newspapers, I actually agree with BCL on something.
The tories have cut taxes, most notably the GST. Whether one agrees or disagrees with that, if you do it it must be accompanied by spending restraint.
The last budget was a little better that previous ones in keeping costs under control, but still not good enough.
The tories have cut taxes, most notably the GST. Whether one agrees or disagrees with that...
As most economists do...
About this $517-million deficit.
The Conservatives want to spend $1 Billion building a bridge across the St. Lawrence river.
Granted, it's not all going to come from Ottawa but where's the restrai....
Forgot there's a by-election.
Elsewhere there was an announcement of $300+million today in Hamilton.
Where's that money going to come from?
Is someone trying to buy an election just like Mike Harris and Ralph Klein did in past years?
Do I smell a whiff of panic?
My, my. What a lovely tub of Liberal bathwater you're all supping from.
Careful you don't waterboard yourself on all the suds.
Don't think I'd get to excited about this yet. Chretien and Martin both had negative periods within a given Fiscal year but ended on the Up.
That is probably why Dion is not making an issue out of it - Harper can just quote him chapter & verse/ dates and times when the Liberals did the same and worse.
Move along now, nothing to see here.
From the DoF website:
Media Room - News Releases
FTP SiteNotices to MediaSpeeches
Ottawa, July 25, 2008
2008-055
Release of the Fiscal Monitor
Related document:
* The Fiscal Monitor - April and May 2008
The Honourable Jim Flaherty, Minister of Finance, today released The Fiscal Monitor for April and May 2008.
April and May 2008 Financial Results: Highlights
For the first two months of the 2008-09 fiscal year (April and May), there was a budgetary deficit of $0.5 billion, compared to a $2.8-billion surplus reported in the same period last year. By month, there was a deficit of $0.9 billion in April and a surplus of $0.3 billion in May. For the two months together, revenues declined by $1.6 billion, or 4.1 per cent, largely reflecting lower corporate income tax and goods and services tax (GST) revenues. The revenue estimates for the first two months of the year include the impact of tax reduction measures for persons, businesses and the GST.
Program expenses were up $2.1 billion, or 7.0 per cent, reflecting higher transfers and other program expenses. The monthly profile of growth in spending will initially be quite high but by mid-year will moderate considerably, consistent with the 3.4 per cent annual growth projected in Budget 2008. This monthly profile is due to the pattern of spending in 2007-08, which was low in early months but rose in the second half of the year once Budget 2007 fiscal balance and spending measures came into effect. Public debt charges declined by $0.4 billion.
The results for the first two months of the fiscal year are not indicative of the outcome for the year as a whole. Financial results can be volatile on a monthly basis due to variations in the timing of significant payments or receipts.
A quarterly update of the 2008-09 budgetary surplus projection will be provided in the June Fiscal Monitor, which will be published in late August.
The Fiscal Monitor is a monthly document that provides highlights of the federal government's fiscal performance, including monthly revenues, expenses, the budgetary balance and the financial source/requirement
Chretien and Martin both had negative periods within a given Fiscal year but ended on the Up.
But remember, "cut and spend" fiscally incompetent Conservatives always end up in deficit. That is in fact the objective along the way to their final goal: to hobble government.
RB comes along and spoils the party...
I agree, though, except that I think most of the economic surprises that might throw off Harper's fiscal considerations are on the downside.
It was Trudeau and the Liberals who officially set the deficit monster in motion in Canada.
And it was Liberals who racked up the vast majority of debt in Canada too.
Give yourself some credit guys.
And here's Poo Poo Paul S. with "Trudeau did it!" and "The Fibewalz didz it!"
You can beat him over the head with the well-documented record of Conservative fiscal incompetence and the recent Liberal record of eliminating the deficit and paying down the debt and it still won't matter.
I'm surprised these people can even balance their chequing accounts. I know...cheques...how quaint.
Your vitriol notwithstanding ti-guy, it was the Liberals who set the deficit machine in motion.
Once underway, parties of all political stripes found it very difficult to stop.
In a real sense, the true pioneers on tackling debt were the provinces; Alberta in particular and to a smaller extent, Saskatchewan.
Alberta's moves in the early '90s helped embolden the federal govt to finally take serious action too.
Liberals learned from Conservatives, as it were. :D
Paul,
It was the Mulroney Tories who kept the ball rolling by spending wildly and chopping at programs randomly to make it seem as though they still cleaved to Conservative principles. That's where your guys reputation for fiscal responsibility first got sullied; after Harris/Eves/Harper its gone forever.
In a real sense, the true pioneers on tackling debt were the provinces; Alberta in particular and to a smaller extent, Saskatchewan.
Prove it.
"Once underway, parties of all political stripes found it very difficult to stop."
And yet, Chretien and Martin did.
Funny that.
Once again, the person posting as "Reality Bites" is not me.
You can't trademark a handle, of course, but it's still damned annoying.
One way to tell the difference is that the other reality bites does not have a profile or blog available. Not that there's anything in mine, but it differentiates us.
Since I've been posting here for quite some time, I'd appreciate the other person indicating in some fashion that it's not me when posting.
"It was the Mulroney Tories who kept the ball rolling by spending wildly and chopping at programs randomly to make it seem as though they still cleaved to Conservative principles. That's where your guys reputation for fiscal responsibility first got sullied; after Harris/Eves/Harper its gone forever." BCL
Only partly true BCL. The history of deficit reduction in Canada is a more nuanced.
It was the provinces that actually got the ball rolling on deficit elimination. Little known and even less acknowledged, it was the NDP in Saskatchewan who first started balancing budgets.
The second province, and the one that garnered attention nationally, was Alberta wrestling with its deficit. And doing so well before the big runup in oil prices.
I would argue that the feds under Chretien and Martin sensed a real shift in the national mood toward wanton spending from Saskatchewan and Alberta and acted accordingly.
"And yet, Chretien and Martin did." - gayle
Even scoundrels deserve some credit. :P
Do you understand the concept of evidence, Paul S., you uneducated buffoon? Don't make me link to your embarrassing performance at Desmogblog again...
That you are poorly informed on past events is your issue ti-guy; I'm not spending my evening digging up old references for you.
Here's a radical suggestion: do some research on your own.
C'mon...say the eff-word just once, you slightly-amusing court jester. You know you wanna...
Vulgar witless tirades are your specialty ti-guy, not mine. Go crazy.
"Prove it." - ti
Since you insist. Here's one link:
= Saskatchewan recorded its eighth consecutive balanced budget in 2001-02 =
http://www.gov.sk.ca/news?newsId=d6291e55-3b85-4e0f-abad-d0029727e4fc
Only a Liberal believes that the Canadian economy is influenced more by small tweaks from a minority government than a slowdown in the economy of our biggest trading partner.
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