Tuesday, March 04, 2008

Cadman Scandal Fun Facts

1) One of the allegedly non-financial, non-illegal offers the Tories claim to have made to Chuck Cadman in 2005 was that they would reserve the Tory nomination in Surrey North for him. Nuh uh. That don't wash. From this morning's Ottawa Citizen:

The candidate chosen in 2005 to run for the Conservatives in Chuck Cadman's Vancouver-area riding said he was never approached about stepping aside to allow the terminally-ill MP to run for the party.
David Matta was acclaimed as the party's candidate for Surrey-North on May 2, 2005 -- more than two weeks before Conservative officials say they offered a candidacy to Mr. Cadman on the day of a crucial confidence vote.


"Nobody approached me for that," said Mr. Matta.

2) A former employee of deceased MP Chuck Cadman, Dan Wallace, has issued a statement saying there was only one meeting with two top Conservative Party of Canada officials before Cadman voted on the 2005 budget.

The meeting on May 17th is now deemed fictitious. Personally, I don't know what to make of that. FYI only.

3) No effect on the polls yet:

The federal budget and a brewing scandal over alleged offers made to the late Independent MP Chuck Cadman have neither boosted nor hurt the Conservatives in terms of public support.

A Toronto Star/Angus Reid poll released today gives the Conservatives 34 per cent of the decided vote if an election were held today, the Liberals 28 per cent, the NDP 18 per cent, the Bloc Québécois 10 per cent and the Green party 9 per cent

4) Ezra Levant manages to turn the Cadman scandal into another opportunity to talk about himself. My favorite line:

Back in the spring of 2002, the Canadian Alliance was in a civil war. The party was in disarray, with MPs defecting, staff quitting and insider leaking embarrassing tid-bits to the press on a daily basis. Needless to say, the party was low in the polls.

Sounds like the today's Liberal party, minus the "low in the polls" bit. This too shall pass Liberals. Hang together or hang separately, and all that.

36 comments:

The Jurist said...

Re #1, a couple of points.

As Zorpheous pointed out, the Cons had no reason to worry about whether or not they could make good on their offer.

At the same time, though, there's little reason to think they'd have bothered securing Matta's agreement to step aside in any event rather than counting on their ability to elbow him out of the picture.

Ti-Guy said...

No effect on the polls yet:

Today's Globe and Mail featured more meat with regard to the Harper's libel threat than anything informative about the issue.

Conservatives (and too often, the media) tend to praise Harper in times like this as evidence that he's playing chess, while everyone else is playing checkers. I loathe that analogy for many reasons, one being that chess is vastly over-rated as an analogy for intellectual sophistication..any activity that can be easily automated is not a manifestation of sophisticated, human intelligence. Poker is a better comparison, especially for democratic politics.

But really, what Harper's doing is playing a Monopoly game that has gone on too long, and trying to cheat, while most of the other players have lost interest in the game and are chatting with each other.

JimBobby said...

Whooee! Here's something that raises a question. Dona Cadman is now saying she confronted Stephen Harper about the insurance policy 2 and 1/2 years ago. According to Mrs. Cadman, Harper denied knowing anything about it and she believed him.

Okay. Fair enough. Let's accept that as fact, shall we? The Con's are all citing Mrs. Cadman's statement as proof Harper didn't know.

But, here's the big question:

After being informed of the insurance policy offer 2 1/2 years ago, what actions did the CPC leader take?

Upon hearing from Mrs. Cadman that an illegal offer was put forward by Finley and Flanagan, did Mr. Harper attempt to delve further into this shocking accusation? Were Finley and Flanagan chastised in any way?

The libel chill revolves around a headline on the official LPC website. The headline reads:

"Harper Knew of Conservative Bribery"

Perhaps, as Mr. Harper and Mrs. Cadman agree, Harper didn't know before the offer was made. Not long after that, however, Mrs. Cadman acknowledges that she did, in fact, bring up the offer to Harper. Unless Mr. Harper thought Mrs. Cadman was lying about the offer 2 1/2 years ago, he did know.

We may never know if Harper was privy to the insurance offer prior to Finley and Flanagan making it. We only need to listen to the tape and to Mrs. Cadman's statements to confirm that Harper did know about the insurance offer shortly after it was made.

Does Harper deny that Mrs. Cadman asked him about the offer 2 1/2 years ago? After that allegation was made, didn't Harper have a legal obligation to follow up and make sure illegal offers were not made in the name of the party?

JB

bigcitylib said...

Good question, JB. The quick answer might be "plausible deniability". The boss don't want to know about the dirty work, so he never asks.

Justin Tetreault said...

When the Liberals made an offer to Belinda, Martha Hall Findlay was not informed until it was already agreed to.

JimBobby said...

He didn't have to ask. The widow of a highly respected MP revealed the existence of the offer in her question as to whether Harper knew of it.

Any respectable, honest party leader would act on such an allegation. Nobody seems to be denying that Finley and Flanagan made the offer. Harper confirmed on tape that they were acting on behalf of the CPC -- whether or not Mrs. Cadman thinks so.

If he was unaware up until Mrs. Cadman asked him about it, he would have be astounded to learn that such an offer was made. Finley and Flanagan should have been called on the carpet to explain their illegal actions. If the party found that Finley and Flanagan had, as Mrs. Cadman alleged, offered a bribe, F & F should have been canned and the RCMP would have been informed.

The question remains: When did Harper know? If it was prior to the offer being made, he is criminally culpable. If it was shortly after the offer was made, he is complicit in sweeping criminal accusations under the rug.

JB

Ti-Guy said...

All good points, JB. I hope the opposition thinks they're worthwhile questions as well.

rufous said...

simply astonishing...

Nik Nanos on CPAC last night - 37% of those asked believe Harper; 73% believe Dona Cadman's first statement (not the one made yesterday).

Nanos said the Cadman affair is straightforward enough that most Canadians have some understanding and are interested; it's 'water-cooler' chatter.

Possibly a portion of that 37% simply can't believe that a Canadian PM could actually do what Harper is alleged to have done. Beats me tho.

rufous said...

"Time for an answer, Mr. Harper
PM is the one inflicting damage to his reputation
Don Martin, National Post Published: Tuesday, March 04, 2008
http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=350818

"I knew he was telling me the truth; I could see it in his eyes," she says. If that line wasn't written by a PMO or Conservative party staffer, I'll eat my laptop."

I was thinking the same thing.

Sean Pelette said...

Mrs Cadman's allegation of a bribe is hearsay. Beyond sparking a desire to find out more, it is entirely worthless.

JimBobby said...

"Mrs Cadman's allegation of a bribe is hearsay. Beyond sparking a desire to find out more, it is entirely worthless."

When she asked Harper whether he knew of the offer -- 2 1/2 years ago -- that certainly should have sparked a desire in the party leader to find out more.

Nobody is still arguing that the offer was never made, are they? It's only a question of details and timing -- whether Harper knew before the offer was made or whether he only was made aware when Mrs. Cadman asked him about it shortly after it was made.

JB

Ti-Guy said...

Mrs Cadman's allegation of a bribe is hearsay. Beyond sparking a desire to find out more, it is entirely worthless.

Wow, what insight.

Don't you have any anything better to do than waste your time making such an obvious point, or do you really believe everyone is just really stupid?

wilson said...

That question was answered in QP. Pay attention if you want to seriously make accusations.

"As I said earlier Mr. Speaker, this story was raised with me 2 1/2 years ago. I looked into it, there is absolutely no truth in it. The officials who were at the meeting have been very clear about what transpired," Mr. Harper said.

Norma Greenaway and Juliet O’Neill, Canwest News Service
Published: Thursday, February 28, 2008


Oh, and if you think PMSH should have called in the RCMP,
then you should have expected no less from Paul Martin, 12 months ago, when he received a copy of the book.
Or did you miss that little fact too?

Ti-Guy said...

As I said earlier Mr. Speaker, this story was raised with me 2 1/2 years ago. I looked into it, there is absolutely no truth in it.

Oh, go away, Paid CPC Shill #48983. What evidence do we have here except Harper's word? And what exactly does "looked into" mean?

You're such an awful liar, Wilson.

JimBobby said...

So, Wilson, are you saying that the Cadman family is lying? Unless you are saying that they are lying, then the investigation by Harper must have missed something.

We need to know what actions the CPC leader took. Simply saying he looked into it and there was no truth to it leaves it that the PM is calling the Cadman family a bunch of liars.

Let's give Doug Finley a polygraph test. He won't even show his face in public yet all fingers are pointing at him and Flanagan. Ezra Levant assures us Flanagan is incapable of such a moral lapse, so it has to be Finley.

Just because Harper proclaims something, Wilson, doesn't make it Gospel.

When allegations of criminal bribery were raised, was Harper qualified as a criminal investigator to look into it and make a determination (based solely on the denials of those accused) of innocence?

"I looked into it," just doesn't convince me that there was an investigation commensurate with the nature and seriousness of the allegation.

It doesn't sound like he looked very hard. If he did, there should be some records of meetings and he would have asked Mrs. Cadman if anyone else was privy to this offer or if Chuck had told anyone else.

What sort of investigation would fail to turn up the fact that Cadman's daughter and son-in-law backed the accusation?

JB

Anonymous said...

"He won't even show his face in public yet all fingers are pointing at him and Flanagan. Ezra Levant assures us Flanagan is incapable of such a moral lapse, so it has to be Finley."

Isn't this starting to get close to slander? The whole thing doesn't pass the smell test but unless you are 100% sure that it can be proven that Doug Finley offered a bribe to Chuck Cadman you should probably tone it down.

Gayle said...

I think Harper will be happy with 37% of people believing him. That is higher than a lot of his poll numbers, after all.

Why should he care what the people who don't vote for him think?

JimBobby said...

If we accept Dona Cadman and family's account that a bribe was offered, there were only two people who met with Cadman who, according to Harper on tape, were authorized to act on behalf of the CPoC and were offering financial considerations of some sort.

The Cadman family is sticking to its story. Mrs. Cadman says she believed Harper when he denied prior knowledge of the bribery attempt. I can accept that. What I cannot accept is that there was any sort of meaningful investigation into these serious allegations of criminal activity.

Either Chuck Cadman lied to his closest family members or for some inexplicable reason, they made up the whole thing or Finley and Flanagan made some sort of offer couched as a million dollar insurance policy.

Libel chill is rife these days, BCL. Delete my comments if you think I'm putting you in jeopardy.

JB

Anonymous said...

Glad to see Dion has finally grown a pair and is standing up to Harper outside of Parliament. He needs to continue with his allegations, and others as well, because the best smear is an outrageous smear. Nobody will remember the facts later on, just the sensational reporting by sympathetic media.

Anonymous said...

Whooee. "Libel chill" - exactly what is that supposed to mean, that when somebody says something outrageously false to discredit another person, the legal ramifications of being sued for your behaviour is supposed to stop you from doing it? Is that about right?

What about their crime bill creating a climate of "murder chill"? But this is the best one - doesn't sinking Kyoto make for "global warming chill", in effect, saving the planet? Go Stevie! Whooee! Lookee, I kin tawk like a hillbilly to! Now, where'd dat sister o' mine git to . . .

wilson said...

'So, Wilson, are you saying that the Cadman family is lying?'

no

The alleged bribe:
Chuck told his family that 2 people, saying they represented the CPC, made him an offer of $1m life insurance policy,
2 days before the vote.
Chuck said he threw them out of the office, and did NOT name them. (why not? did he not know who they were? who yah gonna pin a bribe charge on if you don't have a name)

The Finley and Flanagan 'offer':
The meeting PMSH was talking about on the tapes, occured 2 DAYS LATER, and can be PROVEN so.
Wallace (Cadmans assistant), Harper, Finley, Flanagan all have stated the meeting was the day of the vote, and none of them have any knowledge of the visit to Cadman 2 days earlier (the alleged bribe visit)

So, Dona says she trusts and believes PMSH.
Goodbye winning ticket, unless Libs know who the unnamed people were, and they are Conservative reps.

The contradiction in Dona's story, I had the most trouble with, ended up to not even be in the book. When leaked quotes were first published, Dona was reported to say 'even I didn't know how Chuck would vote' BUT that leaked quote was NOT in the bio.

Why's that?
Has the 'leaker' stumbled into a sting?

Ti-Guy said...

Ezra Levant assures us Flanagan is incapable of such a moral lapse, so it has to be Finley.

Exactly. Any central figure of the Calgary School of Canadian neoconnerie with direct ties to US Republicanism, vouchsafed by that other Calgarian paragon of virtue, Ezra Levant, is clearly beyond reproach.

I've come across theses that suggest that neocons like Tom Flanagan cannot be accused of immorality because they truly believe what they're saying, and are convinced of the moral righteousness of their "new order" (kind of like Hit..oh, forget it). I can't wait until we have the evidence to prove whether that's really true or not.

I don't think so. I happen to think they know they're lying and they know they're immoral. It has to do with the neocon "smirk," which they (including Flanagan) all can't seem to control without becoming grinning idiots, like William Kristol.

BHUVAN CHAND JUYAL said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
bigcitylib said...

JB,

Leave 'em up for now.

JimBobby said...

So, Wilson, you're saying that Cadman was paid a visit by two OTHER guys. These two other guys (not Finley and Flanagan) are the ones who offered the million bucks. Any idea who these other guys were? Or why it would be worth a million bucks to get Cadman to vote with the Con's?

I think this is the first I've seen of the idea that there were two different guys lobbying Cadman. Is that theory being floated elsewhere?

JB

bigcitylib said...

JB,

There are arguably two different meetings with Cadman, one on the 17th and then another on the 19th. Flanagan was at the 2nd.

However, were there two? Dan Wallace is now saying there was only one, on the 19th. But then, in earlier converations with the Cadman bio author, he also apparently implied that he was in the room when the meeting on the 19th took place, and now has said no.

Anonymous said...

Thanks for that wonderful imagery you provided at the bottom of your thread; all you Liberals hanging.

Anonymous said...

The beauty is that Canadians have finally started to uncover the true character of you neo-communists. Dion sits on his hands, walks out of parliament, purposely spikes his own amendment to ensure nobody supports it. The bitter anger coming from the left is the sweetest music I've heard in years.

Ti-Guy said...

Thanks for that wonderful imagery you provided at the bottom of your thread; all you Liberals hanging.

Genocidal hate speech. Typical fascist.

The bitter anger coming from the left is the sweetest music I've heard in years.

I hate it when they try to be poetic. It's so creepy.

harbinger said...

Hegemony

Looks like Dion's shooting blanks again.

In discussing how the polls were wrong in predicting the Alberta election, Liberal operative Warren Kinsella admits on his blog today :

"To get specific, here in Ottawa, I think it means Harper is ahead by more than a lot of hacks and flaks realize."

In other words, it appears we're entering an era of Conservative hegemony.

Holly Stick said...

Why didn't Flanagan, Harper et al offer Ezra a bribe? Gee, whyever would they hesitate to commit a criminal act by offering a bribe to a venal yammering blabbermouth who had the bad judgement to call himself a "Stockaholic". I mean, it's not like he would tell the world about it or anything.

Dr. Johnson said...

Hmmmmm,

let me see:

Conservative voting was significantly underreported in polling,

the Quebec by elections; polling underreported the cons by almost TWENTY PERCENT.

Dion (who would have access to more expensive and more accurate 'internal' polling) is avoiding an election like the plague


and I'd say WK's assessment of a significant shift in power for the Cons, is about right.

It also explains why the liberal press are willing to go down the toilet along with Dion. They're all desperate as hell.

I can hardly wait for the apology (or multi million dollar damage award) stemming from the obviously valid lawsuit.

Their knee jerk refusal so far is just symptomatic of the Libs living for the moment, unable to think strategically due to their complete lack of viable options: eat crow or get sued.

Dion walked into another Harper trap.

He should go back to the safety of the university setting.

Ti-Guy said...

Oh, shut up.

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