Monday, June 14, 2010

The OTHER Toronto Mayor's Poll

You may have read, and possibly been appalled, by this poll from NANOS. This one, on the other hand, which also came out today, hasn't received nearly as much media attention (who the heck is Forum Research?), but it seems less obviously an indication of the coming of the end-times:

Smitherman - 29%
Ford - 26%
Thompson - 14%
Pantalone - 12%
Rossi - 10%
Mammoliti - 4%
Someone else - 2%

And the most interesting bit--look what happens when you put John Tory's name into play:

Tory - 38%
Smitherman - 19%
Thompson - 14%
Ford - 13%
Pantalone - 10%
Rossi - 4%
Mammoliti - 2%

One can still dream, I suppose.

The problem with Ford is less the ideological bluster than personality. Not even the right wing of council particularly likes him, and City staff think he's an ogre. If he gets in look forward to another garbage strike, gridlock on council, and much bellowing about how "The Left" won't let him get stuff done.


Mike Brock said...

If a Rob Ford mayor will cripple city council, then I'm all for it. Hung legislative bodies are fine by me.

Mike Brock said...

... and I do look forward to more strikes. It wouldn't have bothered me if the garbage strike had gone on for 6 more months. I'm all for going to war with, and weakening the public sector unions. Where do I sign? Seriously.

bigcitylib said...

Unfortunately for you, the city's health department was getting set to lower the boom on the last garbage strike when they settled. I doubt you'd get a six month strike unless the city could swing so it happened all during the cold months.

Mike Brock said...

If the Health Department lowered the boom, I would have had the city hire private contractors and let them strike while I privatized their jobs underneath their feet.

And I dare say I would have had the public support to get away with it too.

bigcitylib said...

Or you could let them go by attrition and avoid the chaos and anarchy. Which is what seems to be happening anyway.

Mike Brock said...

So you'd let a group of union thugs get their way because of their vandalism and violence? I wouldn't.

I would order police chief Blair to terminate their "keep the peace" protocols, and enforce the law strictly, arresting any and all union members using violence or vandalism to get their way.

I would demand riot police and paddy-wagons be sent to the union lines, and if any scabs or private contractors persons or vehicles were so much as touched, I'd have the police go and pull those persons out and throw them in the paddy wagon, and charge them with criminal assault.

Mike Brock said...

I have zero tolerance for the way the union used violence and intimidation against private contractors last summer. The fact the police did nothing "to avoid inflaming the situation" pissed me off.

I hate thugs. Be they religious or secular. And when they use violence or vandalism to get their point across, I want them arrested.

bigcitylib said...

And since the police are also city employees, and are also unionized, where do you think your advice to Mr. Blair would get you?

Mike Brock said...

I happen to know from experience that the Toronto Police union has pretty much no semblance of solidarity with the other city unions.

Liam said...

I don't live in Toronto any more, so a slash/burn Mayor like Ford would be great for the rest of the province as the rest of the province won't have to keep bailing out TO!

Reality Bites said...

Anyone else as amused as I am by Mike calling other people thugs?

Reality Bites said...
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Gene Rayburn said...

"I hate thugs."

Yet you talk about how you'd call in the riot police to intimidate strikers.

Sure Mike, you hate thugs besides yourself.

Gene Rayburn said...

"I happen to know from experience that the Toronto Police union has pretty much no semblance of solidarity with the other city unions."

Could you read that on the corkboard from your holding cell Mike?

sharonapple88 said...

I don't live in Toronto any more, so a slash/burn Mayor like Ford would be great for the rest of the province as the rest of the province won't have to keep bailing out TO!

Considering that Toronto pays out $11 billion to the provincial and federal government than it gets back, when the province bails out the city, it is with the city's own money.

As for slash and burn... the experiment is on in Colorado Springs. It's not dire yet, but things don't look so good for the city.

sharonapple88 said...

I find it strange that the "Conservative" opinion on Toronto seems more like anarchy than anything else -- slash and burn, garbage in the street. Mad Max here we come.

Mike Brock said...

I support the right of protest. And I would not support police doing anything to prevent that. However, when union members slashed the tires of private garbage collection trucks, it showed that some members of the unions had no respect for property.

Also, when union members get physical with other human beings, it shows they have no respect for the security of other individuals.

Certainly, I do not support the police being used simply for intimidation. What I support their use for in this case, is upholding the rights of other citizens to not be physically assaulted or have their property damaged by a group of people in a "class struggle".

If the union protesters act peacefully, and do not physically accost the private contractors or do silly things like damage their vehicles, then the riot police can go home. How's that?

BigCityLib was the one who suggested my privatization plan would create chaos and anarchy. So my suggestion to use riot police was in the context of this theoretical environment.

bigcitylib said...

Link for that claim of the slashed tires please.

I'm aware of the guy that went joy-riding in the ambulance, and a couple of altercations, but that one's new to me.

Also, my wife was on the picket line every day and the cops and picketers looked pretty tight as far as I could see. All of the same brotherhood.

Mike Brock said...

Intentionally causing a worsening of public health conditions ...

"Overnight, strikers stepped up their protest, blocking pest control companies from spraying temporary garbage dump sites."

Slashing tires ...

"Julian Morton, owner of JCo Junk, told CTV Toronto Monday evening that his tires have been slashed and his staff has been threatened."

Physical assault ...

"They grabbed one of our drivers by the throat this morning, punched the front of the car and accused him of trying to drive him over," Morton alleged."

Mike Brock said...

I was going to avoid offering up my own anecdote, since it's bad form in a debate. But we hired a private contractor to pick up garbage off my mother-in-laws driveway, and one of the striking workers (who was not on the picket-line at the time because he was sick) came out of his house when the junk removal company showed up and started yelling at us.

I told him to "back the hell off". And he told me that what I was doing was "undermining" their effort.

Of course, I told him that I didn't give a shit about their effort. And he got up in my face and called me a "selfish asshole", etc.

He didn't assault me. But if there was anyone doing the intimidating, it was him.

CanadianSense said...

End of times?

if voters drop the tax and spend politicians for fiscal conservatives?

End of entitlements perhaps for the coffers of union friendly politicians.

Mike Brock said...
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Mike Brock said...

I also ran the line without waiting my turn at the dump site down in the docklands where I was nearly physically assaulted.

Instead of waiting my turn, I walked on the grass to the left, and a bunch of unionistas came running at me. And I sprinted for the garbage truck waiting, threw my garbage in and sprinted around them, back to my car.

They had their arms splayed open like they were looking to tackle me.

Fun times. I must have laughed my ass off for about two hours after that.

Gene Rayburn said...

Mike Brock sounds more like an antagonizer than anything else.

Mike Brock said...

Antagonizer? I wasn't the one trying to make me wait an hour to throw out my garbage.

I was just staying true to my libertarian principles and not letting people rent-seek on me.

Meta Kaizen said...

....annnnywayyyyy.....Ford would be a disaster for Toronto.

Ford's Peter Griffin shtick is one thing as just a Councillor, but entirely another if put in charge.

Ford does not have the intellectual capacity, people skills, or goodwill of key groups to run the city. Could he get elected? Maybe- If Torontonians make a major error in judgment, as a knee jerk reaction to the disappointing Miller, but it would be one they'd (we'd) live to regret.

Messr's Smitherman and Rossi need to step up, although I'm hoping they are strategically biding their time.

I'd vote for Enza the Super Model before Ford. Is (s)he running?

Gene Rayburn said...

Sure Mike. That's quite the pretentious excuse.

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