Tuesday, March 18, 2008

Not Victory, But... "Viggdury", Perhaps?

Took a pasting in Sask., Quadra closer than it had any right to be, Toronto what you would expect.

Just enough there to keep Liberal supporters from suicide; more than enough to give Torys something to gloat about.

Most important, the "getting our act together" phase of Liberal rebuilding should be over now. Organizers should get organizing, and preparations made for any upcoming election.

Here's a possible trigger right here. If Harper and co. attempt to extend the Afghanistan mission without Manley's conditions being met, they should be called on it.

38 comments:

blue liberal said...

As I posted below, last September it was shown that under Dion, there was no longer safe seats in Montreal. Now we find out that the same applies to Vancouver. The Liberals won Quadra by a thread.

At the same time we have a poll showing the Tories 11 points up on the Liberals.

The Saskatchewan race was a blowout but the more worrisome news is what is happening in the cities. Dion's leadership or lack of it is the obvious problem. Did we elect the solution yesterday in Toronto-Centre? Don't get me wrong, Rae isn't a saviour, but at least he's a real politician, is bilingual and isn't hopeless.

Ti-Guy said...

*yawn* @ Blue Liberal.

Anonymous said...

why didn't Dion run some up & comers in those safe Toronto seats and put his stars in tough ridings where they could pick up net new seats ??

blue liberal said...

Liberals outside the GTA aren't yawning Ti-guy, they're fighting for their political skins. Don't yawn too long, by the time you close your trap there might no longer be any Liberal seats outside of Toronto. This is no time for smugness.

blue liberal said...

...or false bravado.

Ti-Guy said...

Oh, c'mon, Blue Liberal. Your sock-puppeting isn't fooling anyone.

This is no time for smugness...or false bravado.

What is it time for then? Hysteria and incontinence? After these by-elections?

... Weawy and for twue?

On the off-chance you're genuine (since it's impossible to tell with the carnival of sock-puppetry that goes on here), you really should just support Conservatives. That's the Party for those who are emotionally brittle and/or intellectually lazy.

Of course, with the evidence of failed neoconservatism all around (far worse than even I could ever have imagined, and I've detested neoconservatism since the 80's and witnessed the Harrisite trashing of Ontario), and with 13 years of Liberal governance being the only thing protecting Harper and the Conservative brand here in Canada (which requires an awful lot of media/corporate complicity that is being exposed every day), you'd probably just be embarking on a voyage of the damned, but at least you wouldn't be burdened by having to pretend you actually understand or care about peace, order and good government.

A real Liberal understands this. Actually, most Canadians understand this.

Reality Bites said...

or falsely pretending to be a liberal.

Anonymous said...

Pretty poor showing. Four Liberal strongholds. One lost, one barely won by the slightest of margins (aka 'stolen'), and only kept a firm grip on two.

It was a great test of Dion's leadership ability!

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Glad to see that at least some voters were throwing away the politics of negativity and fearmongering, of divisiveness and inaction, and turning away from criminal activity and unethical behaviour to give the Lieberals a resounding NO!

Anonymous said...

The Liberal Party of Downtown Toronto has achieved victory.

Victory I tell you, VICTORY !!

Ti-Guy said...

More anony-con bukkake.

You guys should really get in touch with each other and make a video, or something.

Pointing out the obvious said...

"why didn't Dion run some up & comers in those safe Toronto seats and put his stars in tough ridings where they could pick up net new seats??"

Probably because the stars didn't want to run in ridings they would likely lose.

Ti-Guy said...

Probably because the stars didn't want to run in ridings they would likely lose.

And which ridings would those be, outside the rural redoubts of wingnut-land that no one who matters care about anyway?

Anonymous said...
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The truth hurts said...

"And which ridings would those be, outside the rural redoubts of wingnut-land that no one who matters care about anyway?"

Basically any riding where the area code doesn't start with a 416.

Still, I like the idea of Bob Rae running against Flaherty in Whitby-Oshawa. Bob Rae can talk about how irresponsible Flaherty was at Queen's Park and how he left the Ontario Liberals with a deficit. And then Flaherty can remind everyone about the even bigger deficit Bob Rae left his government and then add in how under Rae's leadership many more Ontarians got the added benefit of being poorer and, in many cases, unemployed. Oh, the good old pre-Harris days before the PCs destroyed the province by actually creating manufacturing jobs and increasing the wealth of the average Ontarian.

As for Martha, she couldn't even win outside the 416 back in the day when people other than you actually believed that the Conservatives were going to destroy the social fabric of this country.

Ti-Guy said...

Basically any riding where the area code doesn't start with a 416.

Like London? Or Windsor? Or Ottawa? Or Montreal? Or Vancouver?

I don't know what these rubes are going on about all the time with the area codes. When they use the phone, do they think they're engaged in a clash of civilisations or something?

back in the day when people other than you actually believed that the Conservatives were going to destroy the social fabric of this country.

I never believed that. I just oppose anyone who thinks unpopulated farmland or vast wastelands of ex-urban/suburban blight constitute the social fabric of any society. One doesn't contain any people and the other represents social failure; as J H Kunstler calls it, the geography of nowhere. Places too ugly, too bleak to care about.

Toronto-hating can only take you so far, rube.

Anonymous said...

The big loser last night was Layton . . . the NDP lost big time and Jacko better watch his backside 'cause Mulcair has national aspirations

Unjustly Accused said...

"Toronto-hating can only take you so far, rube."

Right. I'm a Toronto-hater because I point out that the Liberals are in tough races pretty much everywhere outside that city's core and suggest that perhaps star Liberal candidates may want to avoid running in those ridings.

As a fellow Torontonian (Yes, Conservative supporters do live in cities. In Canada. I'm not making this up.), I worry that your throwing around of the Toronto-hating moniker so loosely only belittles the term and makes people less aware of legitimate Toronto-hating.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

hey bcl: what was so wrong about my post you had to delete it?

bigcitylib said...

Anon, it was both dumb and did not amuse me. Think up a proper handle and you can be twice as dumb and half as funny.

Whitey Corngood said...

bcl: i got plenty of proper handles, but posting anonymously seems to enrage ti-guy so that's why I do it.

anyways, too bad - i understand the sour grapes, your party is basically being run by the liberal version of stockwell day. I definitely appreciate that you have the common sense of not hailing yesterday's results as a victory for the Liberals.

was the Leafs reference what did it?

I mean you've tolerated pretty heavy stuff in the past so I was quite surprised.

For posterity, I will try and rephrase the main point of my post:

Liberals are in no position to harp against liberals who arent Liberal enough (see Ti-guy's ridiculous take-down of blue lib) and definitely not in a position to write off the entire country except for TO (see Ti-guy's ridiculous rant against rural areas).

Ti-Guy said...

I worry that your throwing around of the Toronto-hating moniker so loosely only belittles the term and makes people less aware of legitimate Toronto-hating.

The only legitimate Toronto-hating I remember was as a result of Torontonians such as yourself...impolite, miserable, parochial and dull.

They haven't been a force in the city for at least 20 years. They've either all died or moved to Barrie.

Dante said...

----They haven't been a force in the city for at least 20 years. They've either all died or moved to Barrie----

It's been about 20 years since the city turned into a toilet.

Ever since us "impolite, miserable, parochial and dull" people moved out, you freeloaders have had a hand out for support.

I prefer to think of us ex-Torontonians as the "Upper Class". The dirt and crime is far too much for the civilized.

Ti-Guy said...

QED.

Thank you, Dante.

I'm not originally from Toronto and I couldn't stand it as a kid/young adult. The white, old-order Torontonians were miserable...surly, dull, ego-centric (for reasons that escaped me completely) and frankly, low-class. The food was bad and the customer service was deplorable. Much has improved.

Speaking of freeloaders, how are the corporate welfare queens doing, Dante? Are they anticipating bail-outs or soiling their Depends?

Dante said...

Corporate welfare belongs to the left.

If a bank needs a bailout, they should go to new shareholders.

Frankly, I wouldn't drop a penny of taxpayer money into any large corporation without some equity share so there.

There is enough whoring on the public dime by the big shots in the public service and crown corporations.

arlando said...

The strong Liberal lead in urban Vancouver has evaporated.

They also dropped significantly in Saskatchewan as well.

And Dion is calling this a great day for Liberals.

markus said...

First it was Montreal that was safe.

That's out the window with Outremont.

Then they said urban Vancouver was safe,

and their vote went from a 21 point spread over the CPC to a stunning one half of one percent spread.

I laugh a ti-guy when he talks as if the opposite is true.

Other than downtown Toronto there are no safe seats for the Liberals.

They said if the Libs could lose in Outremont, they could lose anywhere. And they were right, with one exception. Downtown Toronto.

Downtown that is. The 905 belt is very much up for grabs.

Oh, BTW, now that we've gone through two by-elections where the polls (at least the ones you chose to look at) clearly count Liberals who'll bother to say "sure" to supporting the Libs over the phone but have no intentions of hauling themselves to the poll for such an inspiring leader as Dion,

perhaps you may just recognize that any real gains for the Liberal party exist only in the imagination of partisan Liberals such as yourselves.

Ti-Guy said...

I didn't ask you, Dante, what you thought of corporate welfare and neither did I ask you for yet another expression of Conservative-brand hatred for the poor. I asked you how the corporate welfare queens were doing.

Don't you care? Good God, Dainty...where's your humanity?

Ti-Guy said...

I laugh a ti-guy when he talks as if the opposite is true.

As if the opposite of what is true? You and the other Biffs are the ones examining the entrails of poorly attended by-election results, making all kinds of assertions.

...all good for Conservatives, naturally.

Fuck, the Republicans have been doing that for seven years. They've never once been right.

Anyway, don't stop talking. As long as stupid people think everything is working out in their favour, I'll know their critics are correct.

Anonymous said...

Ti-guy's right.

Liberals losing support in the by-elections is a good sign for the Liberals.

Ti-Guy just calls it like it is.

Anonymous said...

Hehe, I love the "low turnout" meme as if that somehow shows that in a "high turnout vote" the Lib numbers would be through the roof.

In fact Quadra had the highest turnout of the by-elections and the Libs' support dropped the most there.

Ti-Guy said...

I love the "low turnout" meme as if that somehow shows that in a "high turnout vote" the Lib numbers would be through the roof.

Heh. I love the Conserva-tard tendency to assume one assertion implies another assertion..

Sadly, 'tards, it doesn't. All I mean here is that an unrepresentative sample can't tell you much at all.

The only thing that was determined yesterday is that the Liberals won three by-elections out of four.

Three of four. 3/4. 75%. Far into majority territory.

Ewps...Forget that last part. Went Conserva-tard there for a sec.

bigcitylib said...

So, ti-guy, dyou thing markus, whitey et al are all the same guy?

Ti-Guy said...

So, ti-guy, dyou thing markus, whitey et al are all the same guy?

Does it matter?

I haven't been watching for clues lately, since, in the long run, Conservatives all sound the same anyway and just repeat the same things over and over and over again.

What I find really hilarious is that they write exactly the same comments whether they're trolling non-Conservative blogs or dialoguing over on their own cretin-fests.

Anonymous said...

On the bright side for the Liberals (and the NDP), Vancouver in a by-election is probably a good lab for testing the maximum possible Green vote.

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