Monday, October 26, 2009

Its Not Your Money Its Theirs Part 1 Gazillion

Tories invite failed Tory candidates to come hand out cheques rather than sitting MP.

38 comments:

RuralSandi said...

That should be "their's"....

CanadianSense said...

Why does it make sense to invite the MP who voted against the funding?

The current government invited a concerned citizen who supports those announcements.

Same with most of the prop photo ops it would be inconsistent for those voting against those measures to attend.

The government should not confuse who is responsible for passing the legislation and that they are responsible for adding to the deficit.

Opposition are blaming the gov't for the deficit spending.

The opposition can run on how they did not want those projects of vote buying in their ridings and how the government spent more in the CPC held ridings.

Maybe they can hire a travelling group of 4-7 staffers citizens to show up at each event holding bristol boards signs complaining about the evil ref-con-MP's.

mystereeoso said...

"Why does it make sense to invite the MP who voted against the funding?"

Straw Man!!! Sensey, unless you are going to VERIFY Linda Duncan voted against the funding?

Sorry "concerned citizen who supports those announcements" doesn't cut it. Linda Duncan is the credentialed MP responsible for that riding. "Concerned citizen who supports those announcements" is not an accurate way to describe Ryan Hastman, 12 year old political wannabe fresh from his internship at PMO - shadow candidate without a website...

Our Government, lead by Stephen Harper could conduct itself properly but it doesn't. Instead it sends partisan zombies to replace duly elected members of Parliament.

mark said...

House Ethics Committee chair Paul Szabo (Mississauga South, Ont.) said it will be difficult to find any breaches as the prop cheques are not legal tender.

"It's certainly a political stunt, probably isn't in good taste, in good form, but I doubt very much that it's a breach," Mr. Szabo told The Hill Times.

"I don't think it's unethical conduct, on top of that there is no provision in the Conflict of Interest Act that would address what happened. It may fall under the guidelines for ministers, ... which lay out ethical conduct, [but] the person to whom people are responsible for those Public Office Holders is the prime minister and the prime minister will determine whether they were ethical or not," said Mr. Szabo.

CanadianSense said...

The NDP voted agaist EAP, in fact the NDP boasted they voted 79 times against the CPC so mysteroooo


On what planet do you spent most of your time?

This spending announcement reflects the NDP new revised position since Sept after MI decalared Time is UP?

Too funny, each opposition party is terrified of returning to the voters for their BS in offering nothing but smears.

The NDP are at least trying to fix and prepare for the next campaign this spring.

Good on Jack for trying to hold on to his 38 seats.

CanadianSense said...

Mark,

"Only a fool fights in a burning house." -Proverb

The opposition are self destructing why interrupt them?

Just bring the marshmallows.

mystereeoso said...

Yes they voted against the conservative shovel pages - but the shovel pages are the system Parliament adopted nonetheless. Are you suggesting Duncan is opposed to specific stimulus in her riding? You think she should be out there blocking cheques? That is moronic. And your tirade still doesn't address the impropriety of Mr. Hastman, con nominee to the stars at these events in place of the elected official, Duncan.

Gayle said...

"And your tirade still doesn't address the impropriety of Mr. Hastman, con nominee to the stars at these events in place of the elected official, Duncan."

It never will. He is here to derail discussion, not add to it.

Gayle said...

By the way, Ryan Hastman handing out cheques is not going to win him the riding. I live here and have not even noticed him.

People here voted for Duncan because they do not like Harper. Maybe if a bunch of con supporters move in to the riding before the next election Harper could win it back. Lord knows the CPC are piling tons and tons of resources here.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle

you think the AB provincial gov't is the most corrupt in the country?

Can you back that up with AG reports and newspaper articles about those "scandals" and abuses?

Please ignore the NEWS in QC, BC, QC regarding scandals or corruption.

Gayle blame the CPC for partisan spending money negotiated between 3 levels of governments.

As the latest "fake" scandal of partisan spending fades, haters of everything CPC are left on a wobbly 1 legged stool.

Crying wolf for the next scandal trying to blame everything on the CPC.

Goodluck with your rants.

The CPC are spending TOO much and some waste will be discovered with over 4,700 projects announced.

The Liberal selective analysis and a few papers who reviewed a small number of projects is a simple statisical manipulation.

Best of luck again of finding a party who can sell a strong Federal Gov't to centralize power in Ottawa.

Tof KW said...

CS, I'd like to ask an honest question here. Say we're living in an alternate universe where the grits were in power now, with a minority held together by the NDP. The financial miss hits the fan and an EAP is created and voted in by parliament, but wholeheartedly opposed & voted against by the CPC.

Regardless of their opposition, stimulus money does go to Conservative ridings too (possibly skewed by partisan-ism, depends if any governing party finally drafts legislation against this crap - but that's another topic) and these projects are actually worthwhile and beneficial for the communities.

My hypothetical question...
Would it not seem inappropriate to you if the failed Lib candidate or some other political hack of the LPC made the stimulus announcement - rather than the actual elected Tory MP?

Sure they opposed it, but the funding is the tax dollars of that riding just the same.

Curious to hear your thoughts on this possibility.

CanadianSense said...

Gayle, Mysterooo,

I am glad you think the opposition MP's are more entitled to attend the publicity event than a Canadian taxpayer. (Nominee for next election-makes him less worthy)

Contact the Ethics Commissioner on setting up "publicity photo ops" and demand "no fair" meanie Harper!

Your MP can host her own publicity "photo op" event and explain how she voted against the funding but supports the projects.

It won't cost much, Gayle you can show up with a bristol board and put up a I hate PM Harper sign or an oversized cheque with only the appropriate logos.

I wish you the best of luck.

Mark Francis said...

"I am glad you think the opposition MP's are more entitled to attend the publicity event than a Canadian taxpayer."

The MP is who the riding's taxpayers voted for. That's who is accountable.

Seems to me that taxpayers can attend as well.

What a ridiculous argument, CS. Seems to me only partisan Conservatives would even attempt to buy into your argument. But, by all means, keep trolling and promoting your Party as being anti-democratic. Keep pointing how how our government, which is supposed to be non-partisan, is keeping working to keep opposition MPs out of the loop.

Next thing you know, the government will appoint Conservative candidates in opposition ridings to act as the go-between between people and their government, usurping the local MP's role.

Oh, wait. They already tried that a few years ago. On our dime at that.

CanadianSense said...

Tof KW said...

CS, I'd like to ask an honest question here.

NO. To your question.

An MP is responsible to his riding first and his party second. At the next opportunity Duncan will get to defend her decision to vote against everything until Jack was terrified of losing his gains.

=============================
A life long Liberal MP supported on principal a CPC Policy, a Budget Bill included that policy that saw a NET benefit to his riding.

Hint it was a Liberal riding, he did not run again and helped the NDP take the riding.

Publicity Stunts Photo ops?

Should the NDP or Liberals who vote against the policy be invited for a "publicity photo op" if they voted against it to maintain party unity?

NO

The opposition have been VERY active with bloggers like you in agreement to use selective analysis to paint the current government as operating an ADSCAM scandal.

Review the last two weeks and the Liberal NDP talking points regarding EAP inside HOC vs outside.

Crying uncle, waving the white flag now without a FULL COMPLETE apology just won't cut it.

The Zero sum game by the opposition is destroying any remaining credibility in politics.

Crying wolf without "proof" is being reflected in the Polls.

Turning off Canadians every week by painting the government and the civil servants as evil, racists, corrupt is inappropriate.

Finally I think EAP is TOO big and wasteful and mismanagement WILL be found.

I just want the proof not to be a Liberal JC "proof" but actual real evidence.

That is a reasonable or fair position supported and reflected in the last 4 weeks-Polls.

Tof KW said...

Thanks for your honest answer CS.

I do disagree with you on this, as I think this stinks regardless of what party is playing these kinds of political games, with one exception - Quebec. There I think all 3 federalist parties should agree on a program to undermine the BQ by openly spending more on any Quebec ridings that vote for federalist parties. A not-to-subtle message to QC voters that this is what you get when you vote for separatists but expect federal handouts. The Chretien Libs used to do this to some degree, and I agreed to it in principle provided the handful of PC ridings also got their share.

I would also like to mention, I will hold you to this if the reverse situation ever does occur.

CanadianSense said...

TofKW,

you are welcome. Some bloggers don't like my opinion. I have no reason to mince words.

I disagree with your geographic principle in Quebec.

I would also extend if an MP from the opposition worked with the government to secure a Policy that was unpopular for his party but was for his riding the government should acknowledge with the publicity photo op stunts to reinforce the MP was supportive.

The public want us to cooperate and tone down the rhetoric and move along to tackle the real issues.

This does not mean I support the every policy or decision by the CPC carte blanche.

Tofkw the NDP and Liberals MP's are not "evil" or trying to "destroy" our country. I find trying to paint the CPC differently is just wrong.

Tof KW said...

CS - I never said the CPC was evil or trying to destroy the country, I simply think many of their policies are the wrong way to go.

I did support the old PC party so my support for the Libs is only due to my view that the merged CPC went too far to the populist side, and Harper was the wrong choice as the first leader. I said then that Harper would split the party (again), and I still hold this view. I also admitted to myself that the Martin/Manley style blue-Grits were closer to my politics than the new CPC.

However one thing I did not agree with is this style of old-school pork barrel politics which you seem to think is OK. I feel the Libs are suffering many of their ills now from such past practices, and hope they offer new policies to end this for once and for all.

I also find it amusing that the former Reformers are now doing exactly what they used to heavily criticize the Libs for doing - something for which I agreed with the Reform party on 100%.

Ti-Guy said...

That should be "their's"....

No. It's theirs. Mine, yours, his, hers, its, ours, and theirs.

However, the "Its" in the post title should be "It's."

Thanks for your honest answer CS.

Let's hope we'll soon have cause to thank CS for a non-crazy answer.

Gayle said...

I truly wish I found your need to totally change the topic surprising, but it is a tactic commonly employed by people who are incapble of mounting a coherent argument.

Though it is cute you are so obsessed with me you find it necessary to search old blog posts for my comments so you cen take them totally out of context

Sad and pathetic - but also cute.

Ti-Guy said...

Sad and pathetic - but also cute.

Cute? Hardly. These online psychos and pests are starting to make me wonder whether they have the same personality disorder as this guy.

*shudder*

Anyway, Gayle...in the years you've engaged these wingnuts seriously, have you ever converted one?

Tof KW said...

"in the years you've engaged these wingnuts seriously, have you ever converted one?"

Actually the wingnuts are another reason for me staying clear of the new CPC. I learned enough after the second Mike Harris administration that the new conservatism was no longer anything I wished to be associated with.

CanadianSense said...

TofKw

I have never voted for the PC party and voted Liberal until the GST flip.

I don't agree with the massive stimulus in January 2009.

I was happy with the November Economic Update.

The opposition were determined an immediate injection of $ 30 Billion and 3 policies introduced were sufficient to replace the government six weeks into their mandate.

After withdrawing those 3 issues, the opposition did not back down. The GG granted the Christmas Break one week earlier.

In January 2009 without any help or ideas from the Liberals the CPC introduced EAP.

If you like I can forward the links and timelines.

Months later the Liberals passed EAP without a serious amendment or a suggestion it is TOO big.

Tokw, we "silly" voters or "conbots" have watched week after week opposition demanding Billions more, faster to be spent on every issue.

I was against EAP (size) and speed and GM bailout.

Reviewing the 13 years of Billions wasted by the AG and watching now the E-health scandal is a reminder how things go wrong.

I prefer less spending (less waste). Can you point out which party in opposition has been asking the Gov't to SPEND less?

Tofkw

I don't draw the same conclusions that you do about Adscam, HR boondoggle both AG confirmed vs the "pork barrel" "novelty cheque" partisan advertising meme the opposition have alleged the last 2-3 weeks.

I like many voters did not support the GM bailout but NO ONE stood up for us.

Compare how much time the HOC spent on debating the $ 10 Billion bailout (loan).

Why do you think PC, Blue Libs anyone who is fiscally conservative has NOWHERE else to park their vote?

A government Lib/NDP backed by Bloc would have thrown out less money? ---->Really?

The Liberals decision to give the NDP/Bloc a key to the executive washrooms has burned too many bridges.

An election this spring may confirm this post.

Ti-Guy said...

I have never voted for the PC party and voted Liberal until the GST flip.

Stop lying.

Ti-Guy said...

I learned enough after the second Mike Harris administration that the new conservatism was no longer anything I wished to be associated with.

Unfortunately, little did we know that the Harrisites would all fail upwards and continue to torment us at the national level.

Strangle the younger ones in their cradles, now. It's our only hope.

Gayle said...

I don't try to convert. I try to expose.

Several of the BT blogs I used to frequent now censor comments. They are hypocrites who are now admitting their position cannot withstand criticism.

I have no delusions about my power to change anyone's mind. Exposing lying hypocrites is a hobby.

CanadianSense said...

I am thankful the host of this blog does not delete "offensive" posts from Ti-guy.

TofKW,

I voted for Bob Rae and Mike Harris.

Bob Rae was my York-South Weston candidate as was John Nuziata who held his riding against Judy Sgro and fell to Alan Tonks.

I remember in one election Mary was pregnant doing door to door canvassing. She was wonderful.

Back to reality:

The (Union, special interest groups) abandoned/betrayed Bob Rae and Dennis Miller when they challenged their supremacy.

The Liberals in the 1990's cut billions in transfers to Ontario Bob Rae and Mike Harris made decisions.

Kevin Page has noted in his reports the biggest expenditures is the CPC restoration of those transfers cut by the Liberals to provinces.

I wish PM SH was more of a fiscal conservative but compared to our other options, yikes! Explained in the polls.

Tofkw my support for the CPC is not an endorsement of the massive EAP and eventual waste and screw ups found by the AG.

EAP was for the Liberal, NDP, Green, Bloc voters supporters who were demanding Billions.

janfromthebruce said...

"Strangle the younger ones in their cradles, now. It's our only hope."
BEST LAUGH OF THE DAY
CS appears pissed that in a sea of deep blue there is a orange beach head. Get over it buttercup.
And IMPO it is the elected MP who is accountable in that riding not a "has been" or "what-a-be".
Wishing and hoping won't change this reality.

CanadianSense said...

Janfromthebruce

Why would I be upset about voters make the right decision?

I have always said the voters make the right decision.

I don't complain or denigrate voters by calling them stupid, or they were tricked by TV ads.

I hope the NDP can benefit from trying to rehabilitate their image.

It was MI, Liberals, lib bloggers who were mocking the NDP for NOT supporting the Lib non-confidence motion.

Jack Layton is a pro and survival skills dicatate his decisions.

I never found a compelling reason why Jack Layton would ever trust a Liberal again. Can you link a post why he should?

Ti-Guy said...

Several of the BT blogs I used to frequent now censor comments.

Want to guess how long CS would start moderating or censoring comments at his unread blog if we all decided to troll the shit out of it, like he's been doing at every. single. Liberal. blog?

"In minutes" is my guess.

CanadianSense said...

Ti guy

are you interested in the "potty mouth" filter?

Your political views are unimportant. Your foul language is a real problem.

Best of luck trying to rally the censor brigade.

Suggestion Gayle and Ti-guy blog.

Practice what your preach.

Mark Francis said...

"I was happy with the November Economic Update."

Ummm... History has showed it was fatally flawed. We all knew it was then as well. There was nothing to be happy with.

I think you mean to say that you liked the lack of spending it featured. Its projections were otherwise all bunk.

CanadianSense said...

Mark Francis

can you repeat the reasons why the Liberals could not support the Economic Update and after the 3 "contentious" issues were withdrawn what was the reason they could not climb down?

I must have missed that Narnia History Lesson.

Tof KW said...

Funny, I can't believe someone can switch from voting Rae to Harris. I myself have voted for 4 different political parties in various fed & prov elections over my life, but never for the NDP. (Yes I voted Harris in 1990, 1995 & 1999). Along with Ti-Guy, I doubt your past voting history, but whatever.

Also CS, these Liblogs are not a democracy. The Blogging Tories forums certainly don't allow too much in the way of challenging their fearless leader. I applaud the Libs here for being more open and honest, and allowing criticism.

But I wouldn't count on the Lib bloggers tolerating you, your meandering off-topic criticism & blog stalking forever.

Ti-Guy said...

Suggestion Gayle and Ti-guy blog.

Practice what your preach.


Gayle, do you know what this means? What exactly are we preaching?

Ti-Guy said...

Funny, I can't believe someone can switch from voting Rae to Harris.

Actually, with CS, I can sort of believe it. He just sounds like these loony cranks who think the current government is always responsible for every problem that crops up, and thus, just votes against it in the subsequent election.

He'll be back to voting Liberal again in the future, I'm sure. And when that happens, he'll be screaming at Conservatives and blaming them for the mess they've made.

Gayle said...

"Gayle, do you know what this means? What exactly are we preaching?"

Whatever he says we are preaching at any given time.

He just makes stuff up. That's what people do when they cannot advance an intelligent argument.

rockfish said...

I think CanadianSenesless is onto something. But why just exclude the sitting MP? Why not start pointing out and excluding the local citizenry who didn't vote for the CONmen? And those people who didn't put CON signs on their lawn? Maybe give their shares to the CONbots who kicked down, vandalized and busted opposition election signs, double points for any brakelines cut, too. It's the new acceptable practice in CONada, where blue and bluer are the new colors, and the stars are the dimmest bulbs of the bunch.

CanadianSense said...

Rockfish funny post.

It is also sad, funny you try to connect unlawful, undemocratic activity with the government.

I accept 99% of the Liberals and their supporters are not living in Narnia and are getting sick of the bad advice, poor tactical execution of their party.

Real liberals don't look for ghosts to blame for their current standing.


Rockfish goodluck in painting the publicity stunt/photo op as some "Darth Vader" conspiracy.

Casey, Nunziata are two examples of MP's who broke from their party and won 2 times as independent MP.

André Arthur?

MI and Bob broke away from Dion on principle.(Afghanistan ring a bell?)

A shame MI did not have courage to stop the coalition madness in it tracks. He never supported the idea but wanted to keep his leadership alive.

Remember MI is not about the Polls he is about the principle.