Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Prorogation Nation


Yeah Baby! Its been confirmed. Cue 3 months of "not working on behalf on Canadians" jokes. Or maybe Harper will finally finish his book on hockey...reading it, that is.
PS. Or, as Kady suggests, is everyone working off the same QMI/Sun Media story from earlier this morning?

46 comments:

data said...

I've heard it direct from a well-placed source. It's a go.

RuralSandi said...

Huh - until March, then Easter break, etc.

Part time government deserves ONLY partime pay

Tof KW said...

Anyone posting the odds on the GG denying the prorogation request? Just thinking after nearly a century it would be nice to have our version of the King-Byng Affair.

Omar said...

Maybe Harper wants a GG denial so he can bleat about a Liberal/socialist/separatist coalition boogieman? Either way seems win-win for Fatboy.

Curtis said...

Prorogue = Cut and Run

Ted Betts said...

With an election call Harper promised he wouldn't have, and now two prorogations, Harper has thrown out all of the work of Parliament now 3 times in 16 months.

sharonapple88 said...

Going Prorogue.

I can't believe it's come to this... again.

Gayle said...

Maybe he is just taking his cue from Alberta, where the MLA's sit about 6 weeks a year.

Democracy? We don't need no stinkin democracy.

CanadianSense said...

The vacation is extended for two months.

Many bloggers think this is not a big problem.

In March the opposition can remove their confidence. Anyone taking bets?

During a period of prorogation (or recess), the Speaker, the Prime Minister, Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries remain in office and all Members of the House retain their full rights and privileges.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/compendium/web-content/c_d_prorogationparliament-e.htm

RuralSandi said...

Well, if 2 months vacation is not a problem CS, then I think that ALL working Canadians should get the same 2 month (special statutory holiday) to watch the Olympics - afterall, it's the taxpayers who put the money into it. Taxpayers of all political stripes put money into the Olympics.

CS - you just admitted it was an extra 2 months vacation for the government.

CanadianSense said...

RS

I believe it is five weeks in total.

Jan 27 was the orginal date.

Mar 3 is the new date.

Will the opposition parties follow through or roll over again?

Gayle said...

Hey look - CS is all for MPs taking an extra 5 weeks holiday on our tax dollars.

He also fails to understand that if the opposition is going to complain about the prorogation because it stops them from doing important work, it is hardly consistent for them to force an election, thereby stopping parliament and preventing them from doing important work.

CanadianSense said...

Poor Gayle,

Did you miss a FACT?

During a period of prorogation (or recess), the Speaker, the Prime Minister, Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries remain in office and all Members of the House retain their full rights and privileges.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/compendium/web-content/c_d_prorogationparliament-e.htm

Are the opposition MP's refusing to do any work outside Ottawa and their committee's?

A five week delay and the world has ended and democracy is snuffed out.....

On March 3, 2009 the coalition parties can vote against the Throne Speech in solidarity with Colvin's testimony and the cover up by the government.

or they don't believe Colvin and their allegations they have made against the government in 2009.

The voters have heard the media and the MP from the cheap seats, let's get it resolved through a general election who we believe.

Why is the coalition unwilling or unable to seek the will of the people?

Democracy inconvenient?

sharonapple88 said...

Are the opposition MP's refusing to do any work outside Ottawa and their committee's?

One committee that was coincidentially investigating the government's role in Afghan torture. I'm sure that they can continue this work. Right?

Let's not forget one of the legisation that died was a vote on getting unredacted documents on the Afghan situation.

There was something written a little over a year ago when Parliament that was last prorogued that seems a bit prophetic:

"The governor general is in a difficult situation. Not granting prorogation would be unprecedented. However, granting it would set a precedent that governments can quickly run to the governor general if they are about to lose the confidence of the House."

One change, scratch "lose the confidence of the House" and add "whenever their feet are being held to the fire."

Ted Betts said...

CanadianSense:

You are being misleading.

Harper's Holiday has shut Parliament down. MPs can't vote, pass bills, hold committee meetings, ... do their job in other words.

If the airline pilots went on strike just before the Olympics, for example, the government has no ability to force them back to work because of Harper's Holiday.

CanadianSense said...

TB,

Based on the activity and track record the extra five weeks will have ZERO impact on the productivity of the opposition MP's.

If anything the last prorogue was very productive for the government. They met with many stakeholders and were able to bring the largest budget in a very short period.

So TB, I would suggest your bias opposition grandstanding on one committee is not a valid defense.

Just as the coup by the coalition was legal so is the reset prorogue.

This is not a popularity contest and if the opposition have their feelings hurt, (democracy threatened) they can simply stop supporting this government.

bigcitylib said...

Why do they need to stop supporting the gov. when it keeps dismantling its own legislation?

CanadianSense said...

Ted Betts another poster has wonderful insight

The extra "holiday" MPs get are 21 sitting days, not 3 months. Someone get a calendar and count from Jan 25 to March 3.
The Hoc does not sit on Friday, Sat or Sunday.
Pay attention, is your MP in his riding during this break, or are they in Arizona, like Goodale. Why isn't he working for his constituents during this break. Will he extend his holiday, or return by Jan 25. Wonder how many other MPs are out of Canada, instead of doing the work for Canada.
Will any of Goodale's staff get in trouble for telling where he is.
I do hope he is paying for his holiday on his own dime, and not trying to pass it off as govt business.
And how many liberals, with their faux outrage of the proroguing will vote against the budget and face the voters.
With a possible election in April, shouldn't they get home and get in touch with their voters.
Great ad against Goodale, using his words at how the PM is blah blah, and blah, Ralph decides to ignore all those problems and holiday in Arizona. (and they had snow down there, and it is cold.)

bigcitylib said...

Again,CS, why stop supporting a gov. that self-destructs all its legislation when it looks like something is about to pass?

CanadianSense said...

BCL,

Why not beat the coalition MP's over the head again with the same Bills, Policies?

I agree it is not very 'sporting', but the government has warned the opposition to stop playing games.

This is simply another teaching moment courtesy of a very strong PM.

sharonapple88 said...

Again,CS, why stop supporting a gov. that self-destructs all its legislation when it looks like something is about to pass?

Some conservatives/libertarians have the belief that government isn't the solution but the problem. I can see these people support without reservations a party that self-destructs when in power.

bigcitylib said...

Well why not? If the gov's idea is that they never pass, who cares? How do you feel knowing that the long-gun registry, for example, never will actually be repealed?

CanadianSense said...

BCL,

I have given up trying to figure out the chessmaster at 24 Sussex.


The LGR has been dead for quite a long time.

They are just retintroducting it again, again, to poke the MP's with the ugly stick.

In the mid-1970s, when gun registration was barely hinted at and Canada's population was under 25 million, it was estimated that seven million Canadians owned 21 million firearms. How come such a discrepancy, when our population has grown by 25% from those days?

The answer is that there are literally millions of unregistered hunting rifles and shotguns out there that Canadians haven't registered and aren't declaring -- and aren't using to commit crimes.

If you accept this -- and how can you not, if you check the record -- the gun registry is little but an expensive, unnecessary, largely useless waste of time. Bureaucratic boondoggle aptly describes the program.
http://www.torontosun.com/news/columnists/peter_worthington/2009/11/14/11743116-sun.html

Gayle said...

"Based on the activity and track record the extra five weeks will have ZERO impact on the productivity of the opposition MP's.

If anything the last prorogue was very productive for the government. They met with many stakeholders and were able to bring the largest budget in a very short period."

It's so cute the way you just make stuff up when your little theories are so easily debunked.

I must say I am loving watching all the con supporters contort themselves as they try to find some thin thread of a reason to justify this action by Harper. It amuses me.

CanadianSense said...

Sharon,

I don't see a problem in the strategy by the current government to win the support of the voters.

General elections
Since 2000 the Liberals have begun decline from their 40.8% pop to 26% in 2008. The two right of centre parties united and in 2006 have had little if any serious challenge by the opposition.

The Liberals benefited from a very weak NDP 8.5%(2000)Green (0.5%), those days are gone.

The loss of key voting blocks is because of the policies by the Liberals. Check the McGill Study.

The xxx-scandal of the month thingy has not worked.

Is January going to be the perogie-gate by the opposition?

CanadianSense said...

Gayle,

Nice try.

In December-January the government had meetings with the G20, Premiers in shaping their budget including EAP. (Try google next time.)

Sorry to burst your bubble. It is time to get your bristol board out again for LGR round 4,5?

sharonapple88 said...

How do you feel knowing that the long-gun registry, for example, never will actually be repealed?

Actually, I'm feeling pretty good on that one. ;)

I must say I am loving watching all the con supporters contort themselves as they try to find some thin thread of a reason to justify this action by Harper. It amuses me.

Yeah. It's pretty funny.

The whole "chessmaster" comment from CS reminded me of a parody twitter from "Stephen Harper": As always everyone is playing checkers while I play chess... which may explain why I never had any friends in high school.

I don't see a problem in the strategy by the current government to win the support of the voters.

By not governing. To be honest, if the Conservative's new platform is to self-destruct and never govern, I'd vote for them. It would be great to see themselves repeatedly shoot themselves in the foot.... Now if only they could find a way to manage a budget.

sharonapple88 said...

In December-January the government had meetings with the G20, Premiers in shaping their budget including EAP. (Try google next time.)

Yeah, Gayle, let them have their photo ops do a bit of PR and then get back to the business of government.

Gayle said...

CS forgot to mention the reason Harper had to redo his whole budget was because of his collossal screw up the first time around.

He also forgot to mention there was no need for a prorogation in order to have meetings.

But, as I say, contortionism is necessary for CPC supporters right now.

CanadianSense said...

Sharon,

21 sitting days, who will be productive?

Track Record of Gov't

1. We, the Leaders of the Group of Twenty, held an initial meeting in Washington on November 15, 2008, amid serious challenges to the world economy and financial markets. We are determined to enhance our cooperation and work together to restore global growth and achieve needed reforms in the world’s financial systems.
http://www.g20.org/Documents/g20_summit_declaration.pdf

Prime Minister Invites Provincial Premiers and Territorial Leaders to a First Ministers’ Meeting on the Economy
http://www.pm.gc.ca/eng/media.asp?id=2334

MI was busy writing a book and several MP's were spotting a tan from the cheap seats last time.

You should contact your MP if you are concerned about the 21 sitting days and loss of productivity by our government.

Tof KW said...

But, as I say, contortionism is necessary for CPC supporters right now.

Likewise, I'm enjoying the circus act as well. What I will find most enjoyable is when the inevitable happens and Harper is finally defeated (next year, two years, in four years, whenever) and future Lib governments begin to prorogue constantly to avoid the opposition. Actually, personally I will find it distasteful and repugnant, a reminder of what Harper has left as our new parliamentary normal, and will even more longingly wish for a proper Tory party to return to politics. But I relish the thought of using the Reformatories own words against them. AND I WILL :)

Ted Betts said...

The extent to which Conservatives will go to twist and pretzel themselves to support the single most anti-democratic move of a Canadian government in, well, even as a Canadian historian, I can't remember a bigger anti-democratic move.

When faced with accountability questions the government shuts down Parliament and gives itself a three month Harper Holiday. Time and time again. This is not just bad for Canadian democracy, but dangerous.

Period.

The Reform Party and the principled Stephen Harper are long long long gone.

CanadianSense said...

Ted B,

undemocratic?

General Elections 2008?

November by elections 2009?

Canadian voters are not listening the angry left definitions of 'undemocratic'.

Look at the Polls of the coup attempt by the coalition Angus December 2008.

In fact MI agreed it was wrong a few months later.

Ted Betts said...

What does that have to do with suspending our primary democratic institution just to avoid accountability, killing over half his legislative agenda and costing millions and millions of taxpayer dollars at the same time?

This is the single most anti-democratic move of a Canadian government in our history.

Period.

CanadianSense said...

Ted,

repeating an untruth does not make it true.

The CPC can not pass a Single Bill without the confidence of the parliament. The CPC have only had a minority since winning two general elections 2006, 2008.

The CPC and opposition are free to reintroduce the same Bills, use opposition days, make admendments in March after the throne speech and budget pass.

The Liberals will no longer be allowed to hide behind the senate and their obstructionist moves.

The elected MP's will now have to do their job.

I look forward to having this last liberal roadblock removed.

Cheer up, I am confident the LPOC is ready for an honest debate in 2010.

Ted Betts said...

"The elected MP's will now have to do their job."

What season is it in your world CS? It's winter here. And the MPs are being prevented from doing their job because of Harper's Holiday. In fact, he has cancelled Parliament for that very reason: to avoid them doing their duty, their job and holding the government to account.

I honestly can't think of a more undemocratic action by a Canadian government then shutting down Parliament so it can't represent us..

CanadianSense said...

Ted,

The Lib+NDP voted for a supply Bill on December 10, 2009.

On March they can defeat them at the Throne Speech. (Democracy)

or they can lie down again and bark at the moon.

Harper is ten seats of a majority and can not govern without the support of at least ten opposition MP's.
Simple math Ted. This time the Liberal senate can't block, gut the bills anymore.

Ted Betts said...

CS:

We all understand how a minority government works. Harper does as well and for 4 years has done everything he can to make it not work.

Whenever it starts to work, he shuts it down. Committees. Promised confidence votes. And even Parliament itself, now three times when the pressure started to get to him and his polling numbers started to drop, he runs like a undemocratic chicken tyrant that he is.

Interesting and telling that you keep trying to change the subject away from his undemocratic obfuscation of a working Parliament and Canadian democracy.

CanadianSense said...

I have no problem with democracy and how each political party acts in their own self interest.

Jack withdrew his support of Martin led gov't at his advantage.

Martin lost the confidence of the house and lost the support of the voters.

The house has failed to vote non-confidence in this government.
They just bark at the moon and talk alot.

Time is up, after 4 years of a hapless do nothing opposition and sensless politcal games.

The PM has just removed the last undemocratic roadblock used by the Liberals.

I am confident the voters if given the opportunity will punish the offending political party (ies).

Are we taking bets who is going to get the rebuke?

Can you smell the fear in the angry left? I can.

Please no more fake outrage, take your smears to the people.

In six weeks, the coalition parties can explain the torture, war crimes, torch relay, wafers, deficit, cadman, sexy, tasteless jokes, blah blah.

Call your liberal MP its time to do their job.

Ted Betts said...

Again, trying to change the subject from the anti-democratic Harper's Holiday.

You've said a lot by saying nothing at all.

Harper has affronted Canadians and democracy once again and all Conservatives have to say is, 'yeah, well?'

CanadianSense said...

How many has he affronted?

100 hundred angry left bloggers?

Do you have any public opinion polls to support ANYTHING you say?

Ted, making stuff and distorting the facts has been a full time for many of the left.

28 sitting days can me made up quite easily and if the Liberals don't like they vote non-confidence against the CPC agenda.

Enjoy the ride, it is going to get bumpy without the Liberal senate.

Ted Betts said...

Again changing the subject and not addressing Harper's cancelling Parliament again to avoid accountability. Like I said, very telling.

Canadians across the country wish they could tell their bosses they want a Harper Holiday, but we all have to work. Harper should be working and should be letting Parliament work, instead of running and hiding.

CanadianSense said...

March 3, 2009 accountable?

10 votes needed for Throne Speech and confidence.

Sux when you can't handle the Liberals lost last roadblock.

Best of luck in 2010. Ted no more excuses for Liberals.

CanadianSense said...

March 3, 2010.

Ted don't forget to bring some tissue

Tof KW said...

repeating an untruth does not make it true.

Funny, as this is the way the Harper government has gotten by over the past 4 years.

“It doesn’t have to be true. It just has to be plausible"
Tom Flanagan - University of Calgary political scientist & former adviser to Stephen Harper

CanadianSense said...

TofKW

This is a great start for 2010. The Liberal senators can no longer block parliament.

The opposition will now have to do their job.

We should be thankful for this teaching moment compliments of our PM.
Let's hope the Liberals stop playing games now.