After all, the demographic/ethnic makeup of the Greater Toronto Area mirror's that of Canada as a whole. For example, out West we have a lot of stupid people.
Rae, but I think I may be resigned to Iggy. As I say, if he can 1) act non-arrogant, 2) get through the campaign without sticking his foot in his mouth, then I could probably live with him.
It essentially turns the Liberals into a regional party federally. However, getting yet another leader from Quebec isn't like to help with electoral fortunes either.
To me, it's just a question of whether this sad group of candidates is really the best the Liberals have to offer.
Bob Rae, a guy who is pretty much despised in a good subsection of Ontario for his work in the early 90s and Iggy, a guy who many on the left side of the party vehemently oppose.
Unless one comes out as a clear winner, this could have the effect of tearing the Liberal party in two.
Leaders who've excited the base and the media before becoming leader:
John Turner Kim Campbell Paul Martin Stockwell Day
Leaders who were dismissed as boring, or has-beens:
Stephen Harper Jean Chretien
The Martin/Chretien wars meant it was impossible for there to be an "up-and-comer" to succeed Chretien, and Martin's tenure was too brief to allow it either.
It would be nice if there was a dazzling, charismatic candidate with a track record of success, but there isn't.
"The Martin/Chretien wars meant it was impossible for there to be an "up-and-comer" to succeed Chretien, and Martin's tenure was too brief to allow it either."
Interesting observation. Kind of explains a bit why old stalwarts who were in those wars - Tobin, Manley, Rock - don't have any traction, why it has taken so long for a new breed of leaders to come up through the ranks (when your loyalty to a leader was more important than your competence) and why, ultimately, the two leading candidates had to be "found" from outside of old guard insiders. Which is not to say that Rae and Iggy haven't now become insiders but they certainly weren't 2 years ago.
We are still suffering from those Chretien vs. Turner, Martin vs. Chretien battles over power, that crushed those with individual or independent ambitions and aspirations and ideas. In short, we started cooking the goose that kept laying that golden egg every election. And it takes a long time for a new chick to grow.
You boys couldn't handle the politics of a community bake sale, much less those of a complex party.
Gahd, I can't wait until Parliament resumes; maybe concrete events related to actual governance will refocus all the energy going into this inane chatter and slackness.
Like I've said before...the World is going to look very different by next May. If the Liberals decide that two out-of-touch geriatrics are the wave of the future, then we will end up resigning ourselves to the majority Harper could get by easily winning over the 24% of the Canadian electorate that is butt-fucking stupid.
Ti-Guy - you can be so insulting at times. "Geriatrics"? Babyboomers, yes, not geriatrics. Leave that for the 80 year olds. I happen to be in that age group and believe me I don't feel old and warn out yet. Age discrimination or what.
Personally, I don't care what province a candidate/leader comes from.
By the way - anyone heard if Dhalla's in or out?
Jean Chretien are bore? I can't believe I read that.
- Uncle Louis St-Laurent was 66 when he became PM and continued Mackenzie King's social safety net legacy.
- Pearson was 66 when he became PM and shaped the Canada we know today. One of the most activists, policy-driven and party renewing PM in our history. AND I might add, a very uncharismatic, boring, quirky "not-a-leader" type. Often thought that was the model Dion should have been compared to.
- Chretien was a few months shy of 60 when he became PM and started a record 3 straight majorities, reforming the party and the country at the same time to a much more centrist and pragmatic driven government.
- Martin was 65 when he became PM and... ok, maybe not a good example.
I happen to be in that age group and believe me I don't feel old and warn out yet. Age discrimination or what.
Sorry, but I calls 'em I sees 'em. The aging generation of boomers is going to have to acknowledge that there are very good reasons why people are turned off by politics and have disengaged from the democratic process entirely and that most of it is entirely of your making...you've been the ones in charge, after all. And one is simply the mystifying nonsense that is spewed whenever politics are discussed, particularly when it comes to discussing leadership by people who've never run anything more complicated than a lemonade stand.
Wow . . so now ti guy admits he is voting for Harper.
Fred, I'd never vote Conservative. The halitosis, flop-sweat BO and the general stench of desperation is a real turn off.
This old boomer agrees with ti-guy. It's time for younger blood.
The country is going to get a minimum of two more years under Harper anyway before the next election call.
That time could of been used to season, younger, up and comers like Kennedy, plus in his case give him time to build ground support and pay off debts.
The only chance the Liberals under Iggy (because it looks like it his to loose now) will have is if Harper and his crew, screw the country up very badly.
I'm willing to make peace with the boomers if the following people are immediately gulaged:
1. MBA's; 2. Public relations consultants; 3. Marketing executives; 4. Journalism school graduates. 5. Anyone over the age of 45 who ever took post-modernism seriously.
The problem with seasoning up-and-comers is that the party needs a leader now...
Why right now? He/she wouldn't be able to do anything and besides, watching the Harpies twist in the wind of the coming shitstorm should keep us all endlessly amused until next May.
They have manipulated the system purely for their own benefit and seem to be the problem lately with anything progressive. We don't let people under 18 vote because they are not mature enough. Specifically the frontal lobe has not matured. Strangely the same frontal lobe shrinks in old age. Its the reason why previously sane people become quite bigoted in older age.
My beef is theat these boomers fought for all the rights and social programs we have and now they just seem concerned about their tax cuts and investments and to hell with the rest of us. How many boomers do you know with a home, a cottage, and multiple vehicles? I'm in n my mid-30's, been in the work force for 10 years and my pay has pretty much stayed the same as what my father made when he was 18 despite switching jobs 4 times.
Its a problem that has turned many off from politics in general due to the size of that segment of the population and how poitical parties constantly cater to them to the detriment of everyone else. Many don't see the sense in voting until these folk have passed on.
Not a pleasant comment but thats the way I see things lately.
Many don't see the sense in voting until these folk have passed on.
The way these people are marinating in and brining themselves with the most sophisticated pharmaceuticals bio-medical research can come up with, they're never going to die. Or maybe they have already, but they're so thoroughly pickled, we haven't really noticed.
Gawd, I'm hope some boomer's botox'ed face is ready to crack over my intemperate remarks.
Ti-guy, I am sick of being verbally assaulted by boomers and other retirees because I work for the city. I have been told I am a waste of their tax payers dollars, a make work project and on and on just because they are so antiquated they don't understand the importance of reducing CO2, or don't care to understand because they have gone batshit crazy and care only about money and owning things, not to mention telling others how their properties should look. The biggest waste of taxpayers dollars is responding to these nutjobs and driving all the way to their home to find out they had a crazy spell or a bout of nostalgia.
As a Dipper, I've got no dog in this hunt, although if Iggy becomes the leader, I'll have to send the Liberal leadership a card of thanks for sending the left-wing of the party our way.
27 comments:
After all, we have become the Liberal Party of Toronto.
And really, what else is there?
So Iggy, or Rae?
Rae, but I think I may be resigned to Iggy. As I say, if he can 1) act non-arrogant, 2) get through the campaign without sticking his foot in his mouth, then I could probably live with him.
If you are asking who I would pull for, rather than who I think will win...
It essentially turns the Liberals into a regional party federally. However, getting yet another leader from Quebec isn't like to help with electoral fortunes either.
To me, it's just a question of whether this sad group of candidates is really the best the Liberals have to offer.
Bob Rae, a guy who is pretty much despised in a good subsection of Ontario for his work in the early 90s and Iggy, a guy who many on the left side of the party vehemently oppose.
Unless one comes out as a clear winner, this could have the effect of tearing the Liberal party in two.
I'll offer this observation:
Leaders who've excited the base and the media before becoming leader:
John Turner
Kim Campbell
Paul Martin
Stockwell Day
Leaders who were dismissed as boring, or has-beens:
Stephen Harper
Jean Chretien
The Martin/Chretien wars meant it was impossible for there to be an "up-and-comer" to succeed Chretien, and Martin's tenure was too brief to allow it either.
It would be nice if there was a dazzling, charismatic candidate with a track record of success, but there isn't.
If Iggy wins, the question at election time will be "do you go with the hawk you know or the one you don't?"
Hello Conservative majority.
Liberal renewal...heh.
"The Martin/Chretien wars meant it was impossible for there to be an "up-and-comer" to succeed Chretien, and Martin's tenure was too brief to allow it either."
Interesting observation. Kind of explains a bit why old stalwarts who were in those wars - Tobin, Manley, Rock - don't have any traction, why it has taken so long for a new breed of leaders to come up through the ranks (when your loyalty to a leader was more important than your competence) and why, ultimately, the two leading candidates had to be "found" from outside of old guard insiders. Which is not to say that Rae and Iggy haven't now become insiders but they certainly weren't 2 years ago.
We are still suffering from those Chretien vs. Turner, Martin vs. Chretien battles over power, that crushed those with individual or independent ambitions and aspirations and ideas. In short, we started cooking the goose that kept laying that golden egg every election. And it takes a long time for a new chick to grow.
James: Yeah, that kind of thing.
You boys couldn't handle the politics of a community bake sale, much less those of a complex party.
Gahd, I can't wait until Parliament resumes; maybe concrete events related to actual governance will refocus all the energy going into this inane chatter and slackness.
Like I've said before...the World is going to look very different by next May. If the Liberals decide that two out-of-touch geriatrics are the wave of the future, then we will end up resigning ourselves to the majority Harper could get by easily winning over the 24% of the Canadian electorate that is butt-fucking stupid.
Ti-Guy - you can be so insulting at times. "Geriatrics"? Babyboomers, yes, not geriatrics. Leave that for the 80 year olds. I happen to be in that age group and believe me I don't feel old and warn out yet. Age discrimination or what.
Personally, I don't care what province a candidate/leader comes from.
By the way - anyone heard if Dhalla's in or out?
Jean Chretien are bore? I can't believe I read that.
For what it's worth, which may not be much:
- Uncle Louis St-Laurent was 66 when he became PM and continued Mackenzie King's social safety net legacy.
- Pearson was 66 when he became PM and shaped the Canada we know today. One of the most activists, policy-driven and party renewing PM in our history. AND I might add, a very uncharismatic, boring, quirky "not-a-leader" type. Often thought that was the model Dion should have been compared to.
- Chretien was a few months shy of 60 when he became PM and started a record 3 straight majorities, reforming the party and the country at the same time to a much more centrist and pragmatic driven government.
- Martin was 65 when he became PM and... ok, maybe not a good example.
I happen to be in that age group and believe me I don't feel old and warn out yet. Age discrimination or what.
Sorry, but I calls 'em I sees 'em. The aging generation of boomers is going to have to acknowledge that there are very good reasons why people are turned off by politics and have disengaged from the democratic process entirely and that most of it is entirely of your making...you've been the ones in charge, after all. And one is simply the mystifying nonsense that is spewed whenever politics are discussed, particularly when it comes to discussing leadership by people who've never run anything more complicated than a lemonade stand.
Wow . . so now ti guy admits he is voting for Harper.
Fred, I'd never vote Conservative. The halitosis, flop-sweat BO and the general stench of desperation is a real turn off.
Warren Kinsella has announced his support for Michael Ignatieff, much to the surprise of shut-ins and people in comas.
Warsy gets a hard-on when he's around power. It's a lawyer thing.
I think it's time to lay in a supply of popcorn to last me until next April.
Iggy says " The Liberal Party must Change"
Word is he'll start with the diaper.
Popcorn?
I don't think so. I think Iggy pretty much has it wrapped up and both camps will try to avoid a knock-down, drag-out fight.
In exchange, Iggy's promised Rae he can be finance minister. ;)
This old boomer agrees with ti-guy. It's time for younger blood.
The country is going to get a minimum of two more years under Harper anyway before the next election call.
That time could of been used to season, younger, up and comers like Kennedy, plus in his case give him time to build ground support and pay off debts.
The only chance the Liberals under Iggy (because it looks like it his to loose now) will have is if Harper and his crew, screw the country up very badly.
Which they are certainly capable of doing.
I'm willing to make peace with the boomers if the following people are immediately gulaged:
1. MBA's;
2. Public relations consultants;
3. Marketing executives;
4. Journalism school graduates.
5. Anyone over the age of 45 who ever took post-modernism seriously.
The problem with seasoning up-and-comers is that the party needs a leader now, and one who can speak both languages well.
Having Dion (or an interim leader) for the next year or so while the young'uns vie for position just isn't on, in my opinion
The problem with seasoning up-and-comers is that the party needs a leader now...
Why right now? He/she wouldn't be able to do anything and besides, watching the Harpies twist in the wind of the coming shitstorm should keep us all endlessly amused until next May.
With you there on the boomers ti-guy.
They have manipulated the system purely for their own benefit and seem to be the problem lately with anything progressive. We don't let people under 18 vote because they are not mature enough. Specifically the frontal lobe has not matured. Strangely the same frontal lobe shrinks in old age. Its the reason why previously sane people become quite bigoted in older age.
My beef is theat these boomers fought for all the rights and social programs we have and now they just seem concerned about their tax cuts and investments and to hell with the rest of us. How many boomers do you know with a home, a cottage, and multiple vehicles? I'm in n my mid-30's, been in the work force for 10 years and my pay has pretty much stayed the same as what my father made when he was 18 despite switching jobs 4 times.
Its a problem that has turned many off from politics in general due to the size of that segment of the population and how poitical parties constantly cater to them to the detriment of everyone else. Many don't see the sense in voting until these folk have passed on.
Not a pleasant comment but thats the way I see things lately.
Many don't see the sense in voting until these folk have passed on.
The way these people are marinating in and brining themselves with the most sophisticated pharmaceuticals bio-medical research can come up with, they're never going to die. Or maybe they have already, but they're so thoroughly pickled, we haven't really noticed.
Gawd, I'm hope some boomer's botox'ed face is ready to crack over my intemperate remarks.
Ti-guy,
I am sick of being verbally assaulted by boomers and other retirees because I work for the city. I have been told I am a waste of their tax payers dollars, a make work project and on and on just because they are so antiquated they don't understand the importance of reducing CO2, or don't care to understand because they have gone batshit crazy and care only about money and owning things, not to mention telling others how their properties should look. The biggest waste of taxpayers dollars is responding to these nutjobs and driving all the way to their home to find out they had a crazy spell or a bout of nostalgia.
"And really, what else is there?" - BCL
Power?
As a Dipper, I've got no dog in this hunt, although if Iggy becomes the leader, I'll have to send the Liberal leadership a card of thanks for sending the left-wing of the party our way.
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