Monday, November 17, 2008

Score: Iggy 0, Bob Rae -1

I disagree with Spector:

...Mr. Rae succeeded in putting front-runner Michael Ignatieff on the defensive. In a populist and 'inclusive' age, no one wants to be seen to be engaged in, much less defending, meetings 'behind closed doors.'

The problem with this analysis is, while Rae's stunt might have looked good to a TV audience, the folks at home aren't electing the next Liberal leader. That job falls to party insiders, and I suspect that many of them might be a wee bit ticked-off. As one of Spectors commenters says:

First [Rae] has to win back all the Ontario riding association presidents and others he alienated yesterday. It is one thing to make a point and another thing to boycott all the volunteers who would typically be there to help.

15 comments:

penlan said...

I'm with you on this. I'm mad as hell & fed up with giving more fodder to the Cons & the MSM to play with PLUS alienating Libbers & would be members, such as myself, & causing even more division for all the world to see.

I'm close to washing my hands of the Liberals. Should have kept Dion on as Leader. He's better than all of them.

RuralSandi said...

Rae has made me think - do I want to continue to be a member and donate to the Party?

I didn't support Dion in the last race - but I knew he was intelligent and a decent guy so when elected supported him and the Party.

Rae has made it a circus.

Andrew said...

as somebody who was there, my thought was how much his actions reminded me of my godson refusing to play cause he didn't get a certain action figure.

Their actions cemented my belief that LeBlanc is the only viable choice for the leadership

red and proud said...

Andrew, I agree with you that given the Iggy/Rae antics LeBlanc is the only viable candidate. Other people leaning towards Dominic LeBlamc for leader might want to join his facebook group. here's the link:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=32208708169

RuralSandi said...

I'd be happy with either Ignatieff or LeBlanc.

I don't know that much about LeBlanc other than about his father, that he went to Harvard, was a part of the Chretien people and the Martin people. His wife has just been appointed a judge - which is terrific.

There's not much info out there about LeBlanc.

Firebrand said...

If you don't mind I'll shamelessly plug my own blogpost on this topic http://canadian-firebrand.blogspot.com/2008/11/raes-misstep.html

I think Rae is right on principle but wrong on tactics. It was perfectly - correct for him to try to pressure Ignatieff into agreeing to a public debate and then blasting him for refusing (recall Reagan's "I paid for this microphone" back in 1980) but actually walking out of the meeting can only hurt him with a constituency he needs but which already distrusts him because of his NDP history (Smitherman notwithstanding) - Ontario Liberal apparatchiks.

Ti-Guy said...

Well, Speculum...I mean Spector...does bring up a valid point:

"However, no one in Canadian politics today can match him in a one-on-one debate."

The real fear is that Iggy gaffes it up impolitically when he's being bested; he probably knows that and knows that the CONS are salivating at that prospect. Rae, on the other hand, can go on national television and show his naked arse. I can't help but think he really does know Canadians better than the others.

I still don't know. But I'm still supporting the LPC, mostly because it is the only true pan-Canadian party and because, in a cabinet government, the PM is only a small part of the equation. The other alternatives (wingnuts vs. moobats) are no option, especially with a big ol' Bloc right in the middle of the whole thing.

Anyway, there's still plenty of time. But I'm still not donating until I get a sense that these people have got control over the forces that are undermining the Party.

One last thing...I hardly like any of the people who've come out in support of Ignatieff at this point.

Ted said...

The real fear is that Iggy gaffes it up impolitically when he's being bested; he probably knows that and knows that the CONS are salivating at that prospect. Rae, on the other hand, can go on national television and show his naked arse. I can't help but think he really does know Canadians better than the others.

Absolutely right... because Iggy is planning to spend all six months of this campaign never debating in a public open forum. You uncovered their fear and strategy, Ti-Guy. Thank you.

Since Rae is so all glorious a debater, as you point out, he was just being kind to Michael by taking all his marbles home and running away from the debate.

After first flying into Toronto to hold a press conference about it. Of course.

---------------

This is all such nonsense really. And bloggers and blog commenters, at least many of them from all camps, are doing their darndest to convince everyone they should stay in their mommies basements in their pajamas.

bigcitylib said...

Ted,

I've been wondering about the "flying in to Toronto" thing. Is that actually true? His riding is here, after all.

Ti-Guy said...

Why so testy, Ted? Where's our cheery little Iggynaut? Tous Ensemble, remember?

Ted said...

I believe that they were all up in Ottawa last week preparing for the opening of Parliament tomorrow. This was mentioned in a number of blog comments too, admittedly a very weak source.

And admittedly too, he would have had to fly into Toronto just to participate one way or another and there were other social and planning functions this past weekend. So he ran scared from the debates but in truth not the whole weekend.

So yes it is a little cheeky of me to highlight that dynamic. Funnily enough, I think the debate should have been open so he's right on principle just so very wrong on execution. Going to the media to whine that you didn't get your way? When there are going to be many debates that will be open?

And who looks the worse out of all of this? Rae? Iggy? or the party?

Ted said...

"Why so testy, Ted? Where's our cheery little Iggynaut? Tous Ensemble, remember?"

Exactly, Ti-Guy. Thank you for understanding. The party has to come out of this stronger. Iggy should have said yes when 2 out of 3 said yes and the provincial chair said he would change the rules if all agreed.

But he didn't. Bad on him. (Sort of... I mean, it's not like Bob won't have this great chance to tear him a new one if he is as gifted as you say.)

But as I just wrote: who looks bad here? Iggy? Rae? the Party?

I think all three. And so who is the winner from Rae's stunt? Harper, hands down.

I want a leadership contest about issues, priorities and direction - just like they did eventually discuss on Sunday without Rae. But if it devolves into a spectacle of headline seeking stunts - the kind that got us and has kept us in the doghouse - then we will be back here again in 3-4 years no matter who wins.

Ted said...

To be more precise, I want more more of what A BC'er and Calgary Grit and even James.

See, it is possible.

Now why would Bob not want to participate in that?

Ted said...

Rushed typing.

To be more precise, I want more more of what A BC'er and Calgary Grit and even James have been describing actually occurred on Sunday. Actual discussion about actual issues, the kind that will get us "renewed" and back into government.

Ti-Guy said...

To be more precise, I want more more of what A BC'er and Calgary Grit and even James have been describing actually occurred on Sunday.

And I want Liberal bloggers that are closed to Conservative trolls and sock-puppets. There are plenty of adversaries among Liberals to challenge each other in good faith.

We've spent the last two years either ignoring their intrusions or being defensive.

You can't even begin to discuss policy when you're spending most of your time clearing out Conservative disinformation.