Tuesday, January 15, 2008

Wind Power From The Great Lakes

While our federal government's environmental portfolio has been a disaster, there has been a buzz of activity at the Provincial level, including Quebec's new carbon tax and a kind of mini cap-and-trade market in Alberta.

Now, thankfully, the Government of Ontario is getting on board:

Ontario is preparing to lift a controversial moratorium on the development of offshore wind projects in the Great Lakes that has been in place for nearly 14 months, the Toronto Star has learned.

These projects are not without issues. Some

"The biggest issue to most residents was how it affected their view of the lake, which is really only the last natural view we have in our area."

...seem like pure NIMBYism; others

...many residents saw negative impacts on lake navigation, bird and butterfly migration...

...are real but can be planned for and thereby minimized.

So, there is some good news out there. Take it where you can find it, I guess.

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

With a carbon tax in Quebec and one likely to follow in BC, and a set carbon price with emissions trading in the Alberta tarsands, the Conservatives really have little to lose if they try to harmonize patchwork provincial policies into a federal plan. All the people they were worried about ticking off are already going to be regulated.

Surely Harper, being a master strategist, tactician and all that, will be able to put two and two together on this. The Conservatives say they're against a carbon tax but that's nothing a little re-branding and new terminology can't fix. It's not a carbon tax, but a price on carbon. See, there it is.

As for McGuinty, I think you are being a bit tough on him. He's expanding Ontario's nuclear capacity (at some point anyways) which will reduce GHG emissions significantly and he has also approved the building of one of the largest solar fields in the world in Sarnia.

Ontario has no economy wide carbon pricing system, but surely if someone wants to champion the number one issue to Ontario voters either McGuinty will do it by himself, or Harper will bring it in and McGuinty will be forced to go along as everyone will realize Ontario, at least out of the big four provinces, is the odd one out.

Anonymous said...

"...many residents saw negative impacts on lake navigation, bird and butterfly migration..."

...are real but can be planned for and thereby minimized.


... or exploited. Turbunines at night, as I recall, churn the nighttime boundarly layer and can acutally bring warm air from just above the top of the cooled surface layer down. Growers may appreciate that. Screw the birds, they poop on my car.

Anonymous said...

You morons keep coming up with things like CARBON tax, when it's not CARBON you wish to tax!!! It's carbon DIOXIDE! An infrared-absorbing gas. Just like methane. And water vapour. Will water vapour be taxed next?

And you keep describing it as a 'greenhouse effect', when anyone with ANY degree of scientific training knows that is completely incorrect. By doing so, you keep shouting out loudly that you know nothing about science.

When will this fraud end?

Anonymous said...

"The biggest issue to most residents was how it affected their view of the lake, which is really only the last natural view we have in our area."

To bad for those who have condos on the waterfront. They need to realize that I can no longer see the lake because of them so to hell with their view also. Just a bunch of self indentified elitists trying to coerce the city and province into doing what they want. They should evacuate the Toronto Islands to put up more windmills and the storage units for the elctricity.

Kyle said...

I'm not so worried about the residents' view per se but nature in general for its own sake.

The Great Lakes have enough problems already due to human interference and lack of care when it comes the Lakes. What's the point of our government and many surrounding US States spending millions of public money to repair and reverse much of the damage we caused to the ecology of the Lakes when their once again about to have the Lakes commercialized even further. That's on top of the non-aquatic migratory animal issues. I'm all for wind farms but not in the Lakes for the sake of the Lakes.

This reply is pretty much a summary of what I wrote this morning on my own blog.

Anonymous said...

"You morons keep coming up with things like CARBON tax, when it's not CARBON you wish to tax!!! It's carbon DIOXIDE! An infrared-absorbing gas. Just like methane."

Well, technically it's not carbon dioxide tax either but a carbon dioxide equivalent tax (that's what the e stands for in CO2e). Carbon taxes are based on carbon dioxide equivalents which include methane.

I'm pretty sure water vapour is excluded due to its low residence time in the atmosphere which is on the order of days as opposed to years for CO2, CH4, etc.

Anonymous said...

"I'm pretty sure water vapour is excluded due to its low residence time in the atmosphere which is on the order of days as opposed to years for CO2, CH4, etc."

Really. What bullshit. So just what are the 'residence times' for water vapour and CO2, and why doesn't it make a difference anyway? Clearly you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Water vapour was excluded because it doesn't fit with the socialist money-sucking scheme.

Anonymous said...

So just what are the 'residence times' for water vapour and CO2, and why doesn't it make a difference anyway?

If you're interested in this, you might want to read this discussion.

Anonymous said...

"So just what are the 'residence times' for water vapour and CO2, and why doesn't it make a difference anyway?"

The link by buckets provides the residence times.

I'm guessing your concern about water vapour and taxes relates to anthropogenic sources such as cooling towers. In this case, the residence time matters because the longer the residence time of a given molecule, the longer its effect will be carried out. If anthropogenically-derived water vapour was driving climate change to the point of crisis, something could be done about it very quickly, the same is not necessarily true with carbon-based emissions. Therefore, you have to act before the point of crisis, even if you are not entirely sure.

For the record, I am skeptical about the doomsday scenarios of the environmental crowd but I feel there is enough information to require at least some initial action.

As for your claim that water vapour does not fit in with the socialist money sucking, enviro-conspiracy theory, that claim is obviously false. It would be even better for them if it did. The major producers of water vapour are typically large industries (not really friends of the socialists) that require significant cooling capacity. Once again we would be looking at natural resource industries and power utilities as the main culprits. The environmentalists would get the added bonus of taking potshots at the nuclear industry.

Anonymous said...

Co2 blah blah. Socialist, blah blah, money sucking blah blah. You don't know what you are talking about. Blah blah blah. Your stupid. blah blah blah, water vapour, socialist. blah blah blah. I don't know what residence times are. Money sucking, Blah blah. No climate change, your stupid. Blah blah blah.

Anonymous said...

It's high time that Toronto put an end to the selfishness of NIMBY mentality and lead by example to prove what true global citizens they are, by allowing wind turbines to be built ALL OVER THE CITY. Every neighbourhood should have one, every shopping mall, every industrial area, every park, every golf course, schoolyard, etc. Then no other city can complain because Toronto has done it, and will sacrifice whatever is required in order to promote wind turbine technology.

Now pardon me while I go invest heavily in corporations which build wind turbines . . .

Anonymous said...

And none of that has been built into the GCM parameters. So while water vapour 'may' have a radiative forcing impact of 36% to 66%, no one is sure, and there is a hell of a lot of difference when one of your model parameters can vary by almost 100%, and it's one of the most important factors to model.

Yeesh. You lefties really did drop Science as soon as you could, didn't you? Art History or African Basketweaving just don't seem to be relevant disciplines when it comes to discussing scientific matters.

Anonymous said...

" shorter anonymous said...
Co2 blah blah. Socialist, blah blah, money sucking blah blah. You don't know what you are talking about. Blah blah blah. Your stupid. blah blah blah, water vapour, socialist. blah blah blah. I don't know what residence times are. Money sucking, Blah blah. No climate change, your stupid. Blah blah blah."

I think you've concisely paraphrased the whole AGW argument right there!

Anonymous said...

Where is the post-urban planning from the McGuinty government? Ontario is a pretty frigging huge province and we're using like 10% of it, maybe.

Off grid technologies are advancing pretty rapidly; add satellite internet to the mix and 40 year mortgages for $500,000 exurban bungalows, and who the fuck needs to live in the city?

The state of course has an interest, not necessarily a virtuous one, in not letting random fucksticks set up random settlements all across Northern Ontario. How do you provide health care, education, and law enforcement - which is to say, justify big-time taxation - in such a scenario?

You people need to think "bigger".

Ti-Guy said...

Three comments by named personae and everyone else "anonymous."

...Is that a new record, BCL?

Anonymous said...

Tell us more about your plan to grow the Canadian blogsphere and cultivate debate by cracking down on anonymous commentary, "Ti" "Guy".

Anonymous said...

why has Dulton kept a moratorium on wind power development all theses years while he claims to be so very, very green ??? Something to do with his skanky anti-environmental position about coal fired generating plants perhaps ?

What a frik'n hypocrite, but then he's a Liberal so what else can you expect.

Ti-Guy said...

Tell us more about your plan to grow the Canadian blogsphere and cultivate debate by cracking down on anonymous commentary,

First we start by razing Calgary. Then we get Raymond Moriyama to design the re-education camps...

...I can go on. I have put a lot of thought into this, you know.

Anonymous said...

'First we start by razing Calgary.'

I'd suggest you start by raising money; for example, the $2 million still owed by Lib Leadership candidates.

EMILY, baby. Early Money Is Like Yeast, it helps the bread grow. Don't they teach you this at your indoctrination camps?

Ti-Guy said...

No, no...razing...not raising.

EMILY, baby. Early Money Is Like Yeast, it helps the bread grow.

Learned that at your last CPC team-building seminar, did ya? Did Helena "Titsy" Guergis serve the refreshments?

Anonymous said...

I'm all for shutting down our petroleum pipelines at the Manitoba/Ontario border. Most of the CO2 gas produced in Canada is from east of that point, so let's meet our Kyoto targets by shutting down the supply, rather than trying to reduce demand.

Enjoy freezing in the dark, you ignorant eastern bastards!

Ti-Guy said...

Most of the oil used in Eastern Canada is imported.

Anonymous said...

Most of the CO2 gas produced in Canada is from east of that point,

Actually, 53% of Canada's C02 comes from west of that point.