Tuesday, March 24, 2009

Kinsella Speaks To Jewish Defense League

I attended the JDL open meeting last night and wanted to report that there was a surprise special guest who came to check it out and speak briefly to the audience: WARREN KINSELLA. Mr Kinsella spoke about the Galloway affair, the disturbing escalation of antisemitism in Canada and around the world, and the connection between radicalization of societies coinciding with economic recessions. There was also a Liberal party MPP there. I highly recommend to those of you who live in the GTA region to come out to one of these meetings - you never know who might turn up!

WK hinted at this yesterday, and I am sure he knows what he is doing. But the JDL looks imho to be a gang of nutters, and their leader Meir Weinstein, well, a nutter with something of a dark streak.

Recent events have shown that I don't have a particularly deep insight into the Jewish character, nor into the interplay between and among the various groups/individuals interested in these issues, like WK, the CJC, BB, JDL and so forth.

Someone explain this to me, please.

Update: I am told this was NOT a JDL gathering, but a "public meeting at the Zionist Centre".

Update 2: Yariv from the comments:

The problem for the most part with the Canadian version of the JDL is that it wears the cloak of its American counterparts.

In the USA the JDL is seen as a terrorist group. It has no such history here. It is to be sure well right of centre but it has as well a curious Canadian type of history. For example back in the days of Zundel, Keegstar and the Heritage Front the Canadian JDL marched arm in arm with ARA in ridding Toronto streets of neo-Nazis.

Its just not that black and white BCL. So while I am no fan of the JDL, given the upsurge in anti-Semitism there are many Jews wanting to take more direct action than their mainstream representatives like the CJC. So a small but vocal group gravitate to the JDL. I have seen nothing to date that would label the Canadian version as extremist or racist in their latest incarnation. To be sure they are strongly Zionist very much on that bright flank of Zionism. But then again so are many other Jews. The JDL is only a loud and very vocal expression of that and if they cross over the line, even the mainstrema has spoken out.

Look at the time that someone at a JDL rally tried to compare Sid Ryan with Hitler (Ryan is many things but a Hitler?), the CJC went on record to denounce such a comparision.So while I may not have counseled WK to attend this meeting, that he has does not put him outside the pale in my view.


36 comments:

Ti-Guy said...

This is all a pointless distraction. A few months ago (I'm sure it was before the assault on Gaza), I listened to an interview (I can't find it at the moment) on the CBC's Sunday Edition with an Israeli scholar who argued that Israel, under no circumstances, would permit Iran to develop nuclear technology, even that which is permitted under international law. He asserted that there was only about 18 months left before Israel would act unilaterally.

Of course, things change, but Iran's nuclear capability is the issue that has to be paid attention to. I'm convinced that is the only issue Israel's ruling class really cares about (with good reason) and that these periodic campaigns with respect to antisemitism are really attempts (perhaps unwitting with some participants, but most likely not) to solidify alliances, mobilise public opinion and stifle legitimate dissent.

Yariv said...

The problem for the most part with the Canadian version of the JDL is that it wears the cloak of its American counterparts.

In the USA the JDL is seen as a terrorist group. It has no such history here. It is to be sure well right of centre but it has as well a curious Canadian type of history. For example back in the days of Zundel, Keegstar and the Heritage Front the Canadian JDL marched arm in arm with ARA in ridding Toronto streets of neo-Nazis.

Its just not that black and white BCL. So while I am no fan of the JDL, given the upsurge in anti-Semitism there are many Jews wanting to take more direct action than their mainstream representatives like the CJC. So a small but vocal group gravitate to the JDL. I have seen nothing to date that would label the Canadian version as extremist or racist in their latest incarnation. To be sure they are strongly Zionist very much on that bright flank of Zionism. But then again so are many other Jews. The JDL is only a loud and very vocal expression of that and if they cross over the line, even the mainstrema has spoken out. Look at the time that someone at a JDL rally tried to compare Sid Ryan with Hitler (Ryan is many things but a Hitler?), the CJC went on record to denounce such a comparision.

So while I may not have counseled WK to attend this meeting, that he has does not put him outside the pale in my view.

firebrand said...

it is absurd to suggest as Yari does that the Canadian JDL has nothing to do with the US version. Weinstein has a 30 year association with the US group and was a comrade of Irv Rubin's and even if Weinstein's group hasn't engaged in terrorism they are a hate group. Weinstein is an ex spkesman for the banned Kach party and as such refused to condemn the Caves of the Patriarchs massacre carried out by JDL member Baruch Goldstein.
And yes - yesterday's meeting was organized by the JDL. Kinsella should be ashamed of himself.

Dr.Dawg said...

Yariv's been around to my place, too, trying to downplay the emergence of the JDL as a political force. And, given the links with which I provided him, he's being downright disingenuous when he refers to "the Canadian version of the JDL."

There's only one JDL, with branches in several countries. They get together from time to time, as in this little memorial birthday party for the founder of Kach, Rabbi Meir Kahane:

http://www.jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/37117

Of course, the Usual Suspects will play this back as a claim for some version of the International Jewish Conspiracy, or something. No more so, of course, than various transnational Muslim or Christian organizations are guilty of a conspiracy.

Maybe Weinstein is just blowing smoke. I'm doing him the honour, at this point, of taking him seriously.

firebrand said...

BCL, whoever told you the meeting was not a JDL meeting but a "public meeting at a Zionist centre" is either lying or spinning halftruths. Here is the announcement of the meeting from the JDL website http://www.jdlcanada.ca/reference/events/notice-03092009.html

How can anyone say that a meeting announced with " JOIN THE JEWISH DEFENCE LEAGUE FOR AN URGENT JEWISH COMMUNITY MEETING TO EXPOSE THE NEW ANTI-SEMITISM" is not a JDL meeting?

sue said...

I wonder if someone might provide a link to a story that can prove the Canadian JDL has involved itselfe in extremism or racism.

I did see some dated stuff that linked it to Kahane which is always troubling but I have found nothing recent whatsoever.

Is it possible that the Canadian version is trying to go more mainstream?

Cherniak_WTF said...

Kinsella should be ashamed of himself.
He's not as it would seem that he's courting certain favours. And, given the pro-Israeli pronouncements from the Liberal party it's clear where Iggy has taken the party.

Cherniak_WTF said...

sue - just listen to the little exchange betwenn Galloway and Meir on the internet...

dwillsworth said...

Disturbing. The "event" at the Zionist center was promoted by the JDL as an "urgent JDL meeting". So, it appears to me Meir Weinstein organized a JDL meeting and invited Kinsella to speak.

Harry said...

Here's a shocker for you. All this anti-semitism that's been thrown around lately pushes more Canadian Jews to the right.

Also the CDN. version of the JDL is nothing like the US one ever was. Indeed, I think Mr. Weinstein and co. would have gotten more cred. if they chose a new name.

Maybe they want the "branding." Problem is that the US JDL has done some notorious things, as well as some good things.

They want to be more mainstream, but they seem to be a little more controversial than CJC, BBC and SWC, who have to maintain very measured responses. This is because they often get involved in serious legal issues that can go on for years.

I don't think the JDL in its current form has that kind of substance...yet.

firebrand said...

Harry, Weinstein, formerly known as Meir Halevi, has been with the JDL for 30 years. This isn't a new group that has nothing to do with the US parent. This is an integral part of the worldwide JDL and is a branch plant of the American outfit. Weinstein's parshas (sermons) are all over the US JDL website and the US JDL website links to the Canadian one. See also Dr. Dawg's writings on the connections.

firebrand said...

Harry, this should settle any false claim that JDL Canada has little or nothing to do with JDL USA http://www.jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/37117

Really, if someone set up Al Qaeda Canada would anyone take seriously claims that this Al Qaeda has nothing to do with the others?

sue said...

Firebrand, that is the link to Kahane that troubled me. But there is no link to the American JDL nor can I find any utterances, writings or anything else that puts the Canadian JDL in the racist camp.

They are way to the right, I get that, but they are not violent have not preached violence and I guess as long as they don't cross those lines Kinsella's talk to them shouldn't even be an issue.

Cliff said...

I love all this defense of unabashed supporters of ethnic cleansing who called an act of cold blooded mass murder 'defense of settlers' and their thuggish Canadian leader who recently advocated that anyone seeking to hear George Galloway speak should be looked into by the government.

If you point out the social programs and community support that groups like Hamas and Hezzbolah provide in and out of office or if you suggest that our disapproval of the choice democratically made by the Palestinian people does not automatically invalidate that choice, than you are clearly a useful idiot. A moral imbecile who has fallen for an illusion. If you point out that Hamas and Hezbollah are what's left after Israel ruthlessly suppressed secular resistance and promoted Islamist groups intentionally as part of that, you're just dredging up ancient history.

Except some terrorists do evolve, but only on our side. Past statements and actions must forever brand those who made them as beyond redemption - unless they're on our side and then like the song says 'sometimes reputations outlive their applications.'

Some groups are forever stained by racism, terrorism, murder. Some groups aren't because they're 'the Canadian branch'.

Dr.Dawg said...

Really, if someone set up Al Qaeda Canada would anyone take seriously claims that this Al Qaeda has nothing to do with the others?

Bingo.

Harry said...

Firebrand said:

"This is an integral part of the worldwide JDL "

World wide JDL?
Evidence please that the JDL is even world wide. Oh no, never mind. Folks who tout Protocols-like conspiracy trips about the Joooos no need no steenking evidence. And Dawgie as an unbiased, credible source on Jewish issues? Hahahahahahahahaha!

Dee said...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/activestills/3382221527/

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/international/moyen-orient/200903/24/01-839549-israel-lextreme-droite-provoque-des-heurts-dans-une-ville-arabe.php

Hard to take the moral high road when you have shit like this going on in Israel. Taking sides? Not a good idea.

Just saying.

Ti-Guy said...

Folks who tout Protocols-like conspiracy trips about the Joooos no need no steenking evidence. And Dawgie as an unbiased, credible source on Jewish issues? Hahahahahahahahaha!

Loony alert! Get the wet sheets.

Harry said...

Dee wrote:

"Hard to take the moral high road when you have shit like this going on in Israel."

I agree. Masked Israeli Arab thugs throwing rocks against Israelis peaceably marching and carrying flags is sheer thuggery.

They could leave.

Dee said...

Guess you can't read French eh?

In the French pic those are Israeli Jews.

Dee said...

Here ya go Harry. En Anglais too.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iQdYTxRWOor2nhzurJQYHhQ_T5pgD974F4GO0

Harry said...

Dee wrote: "Guess you can't read French eh?

In the French pic those are Israeli Jews."

In your wet dreams, mine boy.

caption says: "Des arabes israéliens manifestent à Oum el-Fahem"

Note the word arabes. It means Arabs in English.

Where do I sign up to be a far left Jew hater?

Dee said...

You're right Harry.

The far right Israelis knew exactly what they were doing when they crashed the peace march.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iQdYTxRWOor2nhzurJQYHhQ_T5pgD974A1288

Shall I put your name down for a lefty exterminator Harry?

One of those IDF t-shirts should go over very well during a pro-life rally.

firebrand said...

Harry, the JDL claims to be active in several countries. Check the US JDL website and you'll find plenty of references to JDLCanada so your claims that the two groups are unrelated is pure fantasy.

sue said...

Lots of talk, charges and counter-charges and of course the comments have morphed (as sadly per usual) into anti-Israel screeds. I asked for some links demonstrating that today in 2009 this most recent Canadian JDL has engaged in racism, extremism etc and none has come forward.

bigcitylib said...

Sue, there is a link to Meir Weinstein's "facebook follies". His explanantion of what happened in that case (I was tricked by Iranian agents!) is bullshit, I am afraid.

Harry said...

Dee wrote:

"The far right Israelis knew exactly what they were doing when they crashed the peace march."

Dee, are you suffering from cognitive dysfunction? The article that you cited reports that the police were brought in after protesters threw rocks at the marchers. The marchers are described as "extremists" but doesn't indicate that the marchers were violent.

I see the far-leftists scrambling for cover because of the supposed rep of the JDL. Fact is that since the 1970's, the Cdn. JDL has done nothing I've heard of more violent than trade a few punches with Paul Fromm in an elevator.

firebrand said...

Harry, are you a member or fellow traveller of the JDL?

firebrand said...

Harry, here's more proof that the JDLs are all connected http://www.jdl.org/index.php/about-jdl/locate-your-local-jdl-chapter/international Note that the international groups are all "chapters" rather than independent entities in their own right.

And Harry, when has Weinstein/Halevi or the "Canadian" JDL ever denounced the actions of the JDL in other countries whether the recent incident in France where the JDL attacked a group of Muslim students or JDL leader Irv Rubin's attempt to blow up a mosque? When have they ever criticised Rubin, Meir Kahane or any of the JDL's violence or hate?

Sorry Harry but your canard that the Canadian JDL shares nothing but a name with the big bad JDL is unconvincing and tiresome.

Harry said...

Am I a fellow travellor?
I used the Pearson airport once. Does that qualify?

I like BCL. I think we get a better brand of antisemite here then at Stormfront. But not as good as at Rabble or Canadian Dimensia.

Connected, not-connected. WTF? Who cares.

As antisemitic (or any other ethnic hatred) incidents become more openly violent, more Jews are going to re-consider organizing and responding in kind.

I'm not saying it's right or correct.

But this using irrational hatred of Israel to beat up on Jews locally only has a certain amount of shelf life if you know what I mean.

And if law enforcement or other legal authorities aren't up to the task of justice being seen to be done, then expect a commensurate growth in vigilantism.

Meanwhile not of our peace seeking 'anti's' can or will substantiate whether the Cdn. JDL has actually done anything ridiculously harmful within recent memory.

Wish I could say that about Mr. and Mrs. balaclava soup can thrower in Calgary a few days ago. It really was a little difficult to tell the difference between the good guys and the bad guys. Maybe there weren't any.

Mob violence gets like that.

Ask the Hunchback of Notre Dame.

Ti-Guy said...

I like BCL. I think we get a better brand of antisemite here then at Stormfront.

Too bad that can't be said for the loony, dreary wingnuts with tongues hinged in the middle who are attracted to this blog.

bigcitylib said...

"And if law enforcement or other legal authorities aren't up to the task of justice being seen to be done, then expect a commensurate growth in vigilantism."

And this is exactly what I see the JDF edging towards, with these "karate classes" and so on and so forth. And I am not really willing to accept that. Not happy with the way security handled IA week at York? Lets gin up a mob of young muscle heads and next time we'll get us some private justice.

Ti-Guy said...

I don't even know what the hell Harry's talking about. Is it the lack of justice one perceives when observing that all these critics of Israel are running around talking without being sufficiently monitored?

Harry said...

Ti Guy: "I don't even know what the hell Harry's talking about."

I like folks who throw around ad hominums without understanding the subject matter.

That's OK. It's expected.

Must have beens out of the country during Israel Apartheid month.

Ti-Guy said...

There was no ad "hominum" there. There wasn't even an ad hominem. I seriously don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Must have beens out of the country during Israel Apartheid month.

Indeed, I was on the Camino de Santiago. Did I miss the Kristallnacht?

Damn. I wasn't hoping to get the chance to kick some brownshirt ass, finally.

Demosthenes said...

Considering Galloway and the typical talking points thrown about in regards to Hamas and Hezbollah, the fact that you have people splitting hairs over whether or not the Jewish Defense League is a terrorist organization is hysterical.

And firebrand called it: even if "JDL" is just a brand, so is Al Qaeda. Brands matter.