Thursday, September 20, 2007

Free D In Dutch Again!!!

Connie at Free Dominion writes:

Tonight we answered a knock on our door and we were served with papers from Richard Warman (famous human rights complaint filer).

She's right. Insofar as one can become "famous" in Canada for launching civil rights complaints, Richard Warman is:

Warman is best known for initiating complaints against members of the white supremacist and neo-Nazi movements for violations of the Canadian Human Rights Act, regarding Internet postings and website content of those individuals or organizations. As a result of his work, in June of 2007 Warman received the Saul Hayes Human Rights Award from the Canadian Jewish Congress for "distinguished service to the cause of human rights".[1]

He is/was also active in the Federal/Ontario Green Party, where he has run as a candidate several times in various ridings around the province.

Warman charges that, during the whole episode involving Marie Gentes and her CHRC complaint: have spoken words and/or written words and/or published words that are defamatory and libelous to me appearing on the website

You can read his whole list of charges at Free-D (through the first link). I should say that I think most of the stuff that Free-D posters have accused him of is pretty mild, but I am not an expert in libel law. It is also unclear to me that Mr. Warman understands that the "you" he is referring to above includes not just Connie and Mark, but their hundreds(?) of regular posters (although I suppose one could argue that they indeed "published" the comments by hosting the forum).

In any case, as his wiki entry indicates, Mr. Warman seems far more bloody-minded about this sort of thing than Ms. Gentes, so his case is much more likely to be seen through to its conclusion.

Also, I don't think Connie has done herself much good in enlisting Neo-Nazi Marc Lemire to help "research" the comments that sparked the complaint. Although her response to this particular point is interesting:

I couldn't disagree more with the white nationalist point of view, but I am also disgusted by people who would use the government and the courts to try to shut down everyone they disagree with.

Marc Lemire has been fighting Richard Warman's complaint with the CHRC and he has been winning because Warman has been caught doing things like posting on white nationalist sites under fake ids. (Thus the links to the white nationalist sites in my post).

The information that Marc Lemire has provided us is verified court evidence that shows what Warman has done in the past. I am not going to refuse to take it because it was given to me by Marc Lemire.

Oh well, time to get out the pop-corn again. I will update as things change.

And, oh yeah, h/t to Buckets.


Ti-Guy said...

And of course, Freedumb minions at the family-friendly site rush in with the threats of physical violence:

Wlyonmackenzie: Warman needs a re-education in libel case study ....and a well deserved boot up his obnoxious fascist ass.

Charming, as ever.

Mark Richard Francis said...

He claims he is falsely accused of violent acts, so that is quite serious.

Of course, there is right-of-reply at Free-D, though using it just produces more abuse.

Our courts see owners of forums as publishers. I am currently involved as a defendant in a libel case which in part revolves around whether owners of blogs/forums are to be held accountable for what others write.

Currently, when issued a demand letter such as the one FD has been sent, the expectation is that the content will be removed. If not, the publisher, if not viewed previously as liable for the content, will certainly be considered so after receiving the letter.

I don't agree with any of this of course. Lacking a court order, the publisher of any forum where right-of-reply exists should not be in the chain of liability.

Suing FD is possibly a mistake. it could be viewed as an attempt to shut the site down, not to seek redress for defamation. As much as I dislike FD and know that people on it engage in malicious tactics to denounce non-conservatives trying to engage in debate, I also know the place has little credibility with anyone who matters.

Ti-Guy said...

Yes, but the public shaming is always good. During the last debacle, it certainly became clear that FD's claims to "family values" and of being a family-friendly site were a complete crock of shit, considering the amount of highly sexualised commentary that is on display there.

bigcitylib said...

Ti-guy wrote:

"Yes, but the public shaming is always good."

Which is where I hope it begins and ends, but Mr. Warman seems quite relentless about this kind of thing and if he decides to sue he probably won't back down.

Although, if I am reading Mark correctly, all FD would have to do is pull the offending comments and say sorry. Lets see if they can manage that, or whether they will fight to the last Spartan.

Ti-Guy said...

Which is where I hope it begins and ends...

This will only interest me if FD's activities were to be limited in ways that were extra-judicial, because I do believe in defending the civil rights (as defined in Canadian law) of people I don't particularly like. Otherwise, though, and as I've gone on record before, I wouldn't shed a tear if that little nest of fascists and bigots had to shut down.

The dyspepsia and malaise (not to mention the barely-disguised violent tendencies) of these righties have to be channeled into more responsible expression and has to be better articulated, because, other than my usual conclusion that they're all mentally ill and need counseling, I'm mystified as to what exactly is wrong with them.

Ti-Guy said...

You might want to delete that bit of defamation, BCL, considering what the issue is here and who we're dealing with.

...another reason to can the anonymii, by the way.

bigcitylib said...

Mr. Warman is a member of EGALE.

Anonymous said...

speaking of public shaming, The LPC is in deep doo-doo.

"According to briefing notes, obtained by The Canadian Press, only 5.6 per cent of Liberal party members have donated so far this year to the party, one of its riding associations or to one of the former leadership candidates, who are struggling to pay off about $3.6 million in cumulative debt.

Only 29 per cent of Liberal MPs have donated to the party and almost none of their staff members'

The LPC . . they used to be able to steal taxpayer miney so they could hire an election team of "volunteers" in Quebec, now they can't even strongarm their own MP's

couldn't happen to finer morons than Liberals.

Anonymous said...

I'm an FD fascist, by the way. That's why I insisted on changing the channel with my fatuous comment.

Reality Bites said...

The really funny thing about the whole complaint is the reference to the poster "EdS"

EdS is none other than Ed Sieb, Policy Co-chair for the Ottawa South Conservative Party EDA.

So who is Ed? Pretty nasty fellow, all in all. Things you can find written by him on FD include the following:

As for our fedral parties "protecting" the Blocheads... maybe ... I always figured they should have been strung up on gallows years ago, right on Parliament Hill, in public.

It's my home province too. I still have affection for Quebec, but I'm very realistic. I understand that Quebec constitutes a net loss for Canada, economically, politically, and socially, and we can no longer afford to keep Quebec on. It's affecting Canadian society. It's affecting our politics. It affects the way Canadians think and react. And the effects are all negative.

Quebec will not disappear. It will not float away. It'll always be across the river and down the 417. You can always still visit when you need to. That won't change, except the status of Quebec, from an extortionist, encumbarring province to a separate nation, lacking any effect in Canada. As it should be.

Quebec must go. It's completely incompatible with Canada.

I too have friends and family in Quebec. No matter. It's way beyond time to go. There will not be any border guards, or borders. No fences. Highway 417 will still lead directly to the 40 in Quebec. Nothing wuill change, except a millstone will have been lifted off Canada's neck.

(In reference to the site I know the guy that runs the website. He's a fellow Ottawa South EDA board member. I've been invited to contribute articles to the site, which I will.

Almost everything about the "gay lifestyle" offends me.

Mincing, effeminate homosexuals turn me off, and make me sick. Gay politics is reprehensible. Gay sexual proclivities are disgusting.

Of course, ol' EdS doesn't just hate gays and Quebecers. He also hates Muslims. Viciously.

EdS: Yeah... well... you ought to live here in Ottawa... hijabs, burkhas and full veils all over the place. Medieval nonsense, if you ask me. And the men!!! Wearing jalabas, and shalwar kameez, with sandals, and walking in the middle of the street, like it was a village in Pakistan. Appalling!!

Roy Wilson: How many points do you get if you hit one with a car?

EdS: Oh, G-d, don't do that! You'd be surrounded by hordes of Arabs in a moment, all demanding your death! It would be like a scene out of the aftermath of an Iraqi IED bombing - hordes of kids standing on top of the car, more hordes of ululating veiled women, men in jalabas and sandals milling around.

I purposely drive a wide berth around them, when I see them in the street. I know better!

Incidentally, Ottawa South's Conservative Candidate, Elie Salibi, while not a Muslim, is from Lebanon. One can't help wondering how he feels about having an avowed hater of Muslims, gays and Quebec on his team.

One also can't help wondering how many Ed Seibs are behind the public facade the Conservative Party likes to present.

Google "site:freedominion eds" along with words like gay, Muslim or Quebec for more fascinating, if repellent insights into a very disturbed mind.

Anonymous said...

Well, they've reproduced this entire post and comments over at FD; so maybe you could sue for plagiarism. :D

Reality Bites said...

We all could sue, I guess. A class-action suit against a no-class website.

I suspect though, that when this gets out, Ed Seib's career in the Conservative Party will be as long as Gordon Stamp's.

Anonymous said...

Warman represents everything my Anarchist soul hates. Stirner, De Cleyre and Tucker would have dismissed him as a useful idiot.

Don't forget the Haymarket Bombings. Warman is no friend.

I have been playing with some images.

Anonymous said...

This one didn't come through

Reality Bites said...

While we're posting URLs, let's not leave out this gem from Ed Sieb - My fondest dream is assasinating Yvonne Ridley! That vile appologist for Islamofascism.

Ti-Guy said...

Wow. Such defenders of free speech....assassinate people who say things you don't like.

bigcitylib said...


Contacted Warman himself and asked if any of the comments on the thread would be considered libelous. He suggested pulling the one you mentioned, so I have.

Hmm! Interesting, under the same preconditions I could sue half the blogosphere.

Not sure I approve of this guy Warman.

Ti-Guy said...

We have horrible libel laws that are used too often to intimidate and silence people when they're making legitimate commentary. That being said, there is still a moral imperative to avoid defaming people Even if we have flawed laws, defamation should be still be actionable and if someone's just doing that for kicks or to be an asshole, I don't think he or she deserves any kind of support.

Anonymous said...

I went and searched with 'richard warman' some weird stuff comes up. Maybe Mr. Warman should contact Photobucket and complain.

Does anyone else think this lunatic has gone too far with these images? Is this 'free speech'? Given Mr. Warman's history fighting Nazis there is one image I thought was especially tasteless. And why is Judy Rebick in that one??? I don't get it.

Ti-Guy said...

Does anyone else think this lunatic has gone too far with these images?

Who knows? They're pretty artless, that's for sure.

I'm starting to think some people get hysterical over free expression because they realise they have nothing substantial or meaningful to say otherwise.