Friday, January 12, 2007

How Canada's Global Warming Deniers Plan To Help The Stephen Harper Tories

The NRSP's Tom Harris continues his attempt to scare up donations and recruits on The Free Dominion website. In this episode, he attempts a bit of political strategizing:

I completely agree with fourhorses that the ultimate aim is to create a situation where the CPC can say assertively, "The science no longer supports the assumptions of the Kyoto Accord."

However, politically this cannot be done overnight without the Conservatives taking what they consider to be an unacceptable hit (do people think they would really lose votes with this statement (from Canadians who would otherwise vote for them, that is?).

So, the solution put on this site a little while ago by Tina is one I would support as well - namely, they don't take sides at all and admit they don't know and so are holding unbiased, public hearings in which scientists from both sides are invited to testify.

The resulting chaos, with claims all over the map, will do enough to thoroughly confuse everyone (which is appropriate, actually, since the science is so immature and, frankly, confusing) and take the wind out of the sails of the "we are causing a climate disaster and must stop it" camp entirely, and the CPC can quietly turn to important issues without really having had to say much at all.

What's wrong with this approach?

Well, this approach did prove effective for a long time--for the tobacco industry, as they tried to hold off anti-smoking legislation. From the Union of Concerned Scientists report, "Smoke, Mirrors, and Hot Air":

In reviewing the tobacco industryÂ’s disinformation campaign, the first thing to note is that
the tobacco companies quickly realized they did not need to prove their products were safe. Rather, as internal documents have long since revealed, they had only to “maintain doubt” on the scientific front as a calculated strategy.


As one famous internal memo from the Brown & Williamson tobacco company put it: “Doubt is our product, since it is the best means of competing with the body of fact’ that exists in the minds of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy.”

Maintain doubt and call for "sound science" was the tobacco lobby's clarion call for years. However, they were eventually found out. The oil companies and their astroturf groups (like Tom's) have been running the same set of plays vis-a-vis global warming, but as the above noted report demonstrates, they've already been caught.

And, interestingly enough, it appears today that Exxon has thrown in the towel. It has admitted the reality of anthropogenic global warming and is now engaged in talks with the U.S. government as to how carbon emission regulations might look. It has also stopped funding the Competitive Enterprise Institute, as well as "five or six other" of its astroturf groups. Since one of these, The Fraser Institute, funded the earlier research of Tim Ball, one of Mr. Harris' compatriot's at the NRSP, we should know fairly soon whether these two fellows are still in business or flipping burgers for a living.

(Maybe that's why Tom's scrounging for fins at the Free Dominion)

h/t to one of my anonymice.



34 comments:

Anonymous said...

Only problem is Stephen Harper has come out and said he accepts the science of global warming... so FD is helping no one.

Anonymous said...

Do have a list of these astro-turf groups handy? I offen find myself debating GM/GCC/GHG deniers that use old research that since being peered review has been found in error, not neccessarily completely incorrect.

One such debate to place at Garth Turners Blog where "Ace" used the 1998 Idso study that claim global temperature flux was cause mainly by solar sunspot activity. Of course there were major errors in the initial research (data and analysis) and it has since been correct. Yup, sun spot activity does effect our global climate, but it can only account for ten to a maximum of thirty percent (the upper error margin) of the current problem we are experiencing.

Back chasing these faux studies and vetting them and pointing to the updated studies is long, time consuming work. It is even more annoying to see the same individual repeat the same incorrect and error a week later.

A vast majority of of people in either camp have almost no understanding of the math and science involved, and fall back on political talking points to refute or support their position.

It is even more frustrating when people in the "Green" camp point to the most outragous, worst case senario.

The largest problem is in the nay-sayers camp, either the supporters their do not understand and simply repeating the the talking points that other have fed them or the support is actively and knowning distributing information that they know is false or has long since been proven as in aquirate.

Anyhoo, I'd love that list of astro-turfers if you have it.

Jeff said...

if he's hanging out at free dominion, the situation must be desparate for ol' tom.

bigcitylib said...

Zorph,

The UCS report has an appendix of the groups/people that Exxon has funded. Fraser Institute is the only can con I noticed. (Click to get the PDF)

DeSmog blog usually has a post somewhere refuting these charges as they come up. The whole "Global Cooling" point is the one I find most annoying.

Anonymous said...

Problem is there are voice of descent in Harpers party right now about GM and GCC.

I have the small hope that Baird and Harper might actually understand that the problem is real and are really going to try to get some movement on the issue.

Yet with idiots like this, "lets just muddy the water and stall untill the issue is forgotten" will make this the even more difficult.

Thanks for the info, this bares archiving for future use.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Biggy, you maybe a Lib, but your Green in my books!

bigcitylib said...

Zorph,


It isn't beyond the realm of possibility that I'll vote that way too.

Anonymous said...

The crisis is real. Action must be taken now. At the end of 2006 Canada was about 350 Mt over Kyoto agreed target. This is a great international embarrassment. Even though the Europeans are also over their targets, they are no where near as bad as Canada. They will shame us.

Layton, Dion and May are correct. Action now.

We can achieve 15% of our Kyoto target by closing down the 5 largest coal fired plants in Canada. Although this will result in Ontario losing 30% of it electrical power, they will just have to suffer. The other big coal fired plants are in Alberta, Nova Scotia and Saskatchewan so the pain will be spread across the country. Canadians are tough – we can live just fine with lower electrical consumption – we don’t really need air conditioning in Toronto in July

We can get another 15% by closing down the Alberta Oil Sands. This will result in only tens of thousands of job losses and Ottawa will lose less than $10 billion a year in tax revenue from Alberta but no hospitals need be closed because the loss in tax dollars can be balanced against much lower transfer payments to Quebec and the Maritimes – this will increased the provincial whining over the fiscal imbalance, but so be it.

The last 70% of our target we can meet by buying those so called “hot air credits”. At the current international price of $30/Mt, our buy of 245Mt would only cost $7.4 billion dollars a year. Only $7.4 a year. Canadian taxpayers won’t mind.

This is a cheap price to pay to be able to hold our heads high in the international community. While China and India and those terrible Americans continue to thumb their noses at their fellow humans, build dirty coal fired electrical plants at the rate of two a week or drive tricked out Hummers.

Our economy will recover, eventually. It might take 30 years, it might take 50 years, but the devastation, the sacrifice of our way of life will be a cheap price to allow us to be the poster kids of internationalism.

Action NOW !!

Anonymous said...

For information on the actual science, check out http://www.realclimate.org/
which deals with all sorts of aspects of climate science. Some articles are pretty technical, but they answer questions there and provide plenty of links to scientific papers and to other blogs.

DeSmobBlog's science consensus page has good links, including this Grist one: http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics
which covers all the skeptics' arguments.

http://www.exxonsecrets.org/ follows who gets funding from Exxon (including the Fraser Institute)

JimBobby said...

Whooee! The more so-called Harper supporters who deny climate change, the easier it is t' see that the CPoC ain't really the teensiest bit green.

Whether Harpoon an' Baird really believe in science ain't the point, sez I. It's whether they accept the fact that Canajuns believe the science an' demand effective action. Polyticians are in the bizness o' gettin' votes. If they hafta sensible things -- in spite o' their beliefs -- Canajuns are the winners.

These "smoke an' mirrors" idjits ain't got the memo yet. The official CPoC position has made a 180 degree turn. Stayin' the denial course'll jest cost 'em votes.

JimBobby

Tom Harris said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Mr. Harris never did explain the inconsistency (ie. what appears to be a blatant lie) you posted about earlier.

Why do these people think we should assume they're telling the truth about anything? At this point, if Mr. Harris came out in favour of air, I'd stop breathing.

Tom Harris said...

I'd be happy to accept donations from people on this site as well, if that is your point in criticizing me for asking people on the Free Domnion Web site for support. BTW, it IS true that "mostly left wing entities" are those who support severe CO2 restrictions - that is simply a statement of fact. We are neither left or right wing on this issue and will suport whoever promotes rational, science-based policy based on full disclosure. Witness our attacks on the CPC, Dion and NDP (Dewar) when they say things that are not backed up by good science. I have suggested to CFRA radio to have me on air next time Elizabeth May is on so that I can correct her when she makes science mistakes and support her when she makes good science points, one example being the foolishness of trying to sequester large quantities of CO2 underground. I would also support her contention that we need far more funds for adaptation to climate change.

Here is what I posted on FD, which really can apply anywhere, I suggest:

Please see See www.desmogblog.com (including the recent reference to FD at http://www.desmogblog.com/blog/richard-littlemore ) for an illustration of why scientists who speak out against climate change alarmism need your help.

www.desmogblog.com (funded by a wealthy Calgary-based lawyer and operated by one of Canada's largest PR firms specifically to "debunk the debunkers" on climate change), www.Sourcewatch.org and the many others who republish their material in blogs, newspapers and other media (take a bow, Fifth Estate), provide excellent illustrations that NRSP is on the right track and urgently needed by Canadians who favour a rational, science-based approach to environmental issues. Why else would these (mostly left-wing) entities spend so much of their resources attacking us (which they did within hours of NRSP's launch in October)?

It is important to remember in all of this that the thing climate change alarmists fear most is that the lid will be lifted from the Pandora's Box that is modern climate change science and the public and the media will start to appreciate the massive uncertainly, vast contradictions and stong dissent that permiate the science behind the climate change scare. I hope [BigCityLibs} will consider a donation to help us continue and intensify this fight - see - http://www.nrsp.com/getinvolved.html . You can rest assured all donations to NRSP are strictly confidential, the reasons being obvious if you have a look at how those who dare think for themselves on this issue are dealt with by the left-wing extremists.

With the Conservative Party of Canada sounding more and more like the David Suzuki Foundation and the Sierra Club (a weird strategy considering none of them will ever vote CPC), Canada desperately needs groups like www.nrsp.com , helping non-governmental, non-industry climate scientists get the word out about what science really says.

To those of you who have already contacted me, thanks very much. To everyone else, I hope to hear from you soon! Contrary to what is claimed on http://www.desmogblog.com/blog/richard-littlemore , I am responding to Canadians from coast to coast hourly as our numbers of supporters continue to rise! After the current hysteria has died down enough that the public's attention moves on to other issues, I am confident that Canada, with the input of our country's leading scientists, engineers and economists, has the potential to enable sane climate policy (focused on adaptation and continued research into the true causes of global climate change). It won't happen overnight but, with your help, it will happen. I hope you will join us!

Sincerely,

Tom Harris, B. Eng., M. Eng. (thermofluids)
Executive Director
Natural Resources Stewardship Project
P.O. Box 23013
Ottawa, Ontario K2A 4E2

Web: www.nrsp.com

Tom Harris said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
bigcitylib said...

Tom Harris wrote,

"You can rest assured all donations to NRSP are strictly confidential, the reasons being obvious if you have a look at how those who dare think for themselves on this issue are dealt with by the left-wing extremists."

As far as I know, all that has happened to these free thinking types is that they've been reamed out on blogs.

Luckily for you, though, if you're feeling really oppressed, one of the BBC's science reporters is collecting testimony from scientists who claim to have been persecuted for their GW skepticism, and will be investigating these claims over the course of the next year. I've written about this, and if you like I could give you the guy's email.

Anonymous said...

Please delete the first version of my last post

If you're logged into Blogger, as you appear to be, you can delete the comment yourself. Just click on the little trash-can below the comment and...

Oh, wait. That's science, and we haven't heard from all sides yet.

Anonymous said...

Enjoyed smilin' Jack's news conference a few weeks ago when he was whining about khaki shorts and birkenstocks in his neighbourhood in December. One week of anecdotal evidence in an isolated location is enough for Jack it appears. Imagine my disappointment when I didn't see him this week standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the global cooling alarmists on Portage & Main experiencing a -46C evening.

bigcitylib said...

anon,

Turns out 2006 is the fifth hottest year ever recorded. Nothing anecdotal about that.

Anonymous said...

Imagine my disappointment when I didn't see him this week standing shoulder-to-shoulder with the global cooling alarmists on Portage & Main experiencing a -46C evening.

That's positively balmy for Winterpig this time of year, isn't it?

My home town had a green Christmas this year for the first time in recorded history.

Tom Harris said...

"As far as I know, all that has happened to these free thinking types is that they've been reamed out on blogs."

If that's what you think, then you'd better have a look about in the main stream media and also examine the activities of enviro extremists. It is a rather nasty game they are playing (which of course reveals how weak their actual arguement is).

Tom

PS: The BBC reporter you cite is actually a devote warmer out to discredit our side, we found on investigation. No fruit on that tree, I'm afraid.

Anonymous said...

Congrats on your first green Christmas ti-guy. A friend in BC tells me her city had their first white Christmas in history...damn, more evidence for those global cooling loonies.

One of those top 5 hottest years was in the 1930's...maybe you know the exact year bigcitylib. Glad that they spent $10B/year in emission credits back then to really turn things around. Too bad about that whole economic crash thing though.

Anonymous said...

Getting rid of most of the carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions caused by the combustion of fossil fuels may be one of the best economic moves America could make. Why? It could eventually put the equivalent of $1,600 to the use of every man, woman and child in the United States. Read on.

America is paying an unbelievable penalty for the use of fossil fuels to generate electrical energy.

The United States has been identified as the No. 1 emitter of CO2, producing some 25% of all CO2 emissions in the world.

The threat is high that America could become the victim of the draconian provisions of the Kyoto Protocol. The United States has avoided being dragged into the Kyoto Protocol, particularly through the efforts of President George W. Bush. President Bush said: "This [reduction of CO2 emissions] is a challenge that requires a 100% effort, ours and the rest of the world’s. The world's second largest emitter of greenhouse gases is China, yet China was entirely exempted from the requirements of the Kyoto Protocol. India is among the top emitters, yet India is also exempt from Kyoto. America's unwillingness to embrace a flawed treaty should not be read by our friends and allies as any abdication of responsibility."

The United States has the technology to provide an alternative replacement for fossil fuels used in the generation of the nation's electricity.

That alternative source is the safest, environmentally clean, efficient and lowest cost for energy production in the world. It is atomic energy, proven over 50 years to be the most reliable source.

After years of the spread of misinformation and outright lies by radical activists about the safety and efficiency of atomic energy, the entire world's attention now is being directed to atomic methods.

THE FINANCIAL TIMES, an highly respected publication, reported in November 2006: "For the first time in its 32-year history, the International Energy Agency (IEA) will urge governments around the world to help speed the construction of new nuclear power plants.

"Fatif Birol, IEA chief economist, said, 'We need a decision almost tomorrow if we are going to act before we reach a point of no return in climate and security of supply.'"

Mr. Birol added, "The IEA calculated the world needs to invest 17 trillion dollars in energy until 2030. Nuclear power is indicated for the lead."

The report continues, "We are on an energy path that is vulnerable, dirty and expensive." Mr. Birol concluded the goal was to "prepare an alternative path ... to a cleaner, safer, less costly system."

China has eight atomic plants under construction with another 27 in the offing, all being built by Westinghouse Corporation, formerly the largest builder of U.S. atomic plants, now owned by the Japanese. Many nations are building or intend to build atomic plants.

While the rest of the world has finally seen the light, the far left in America is leading the United States, under the guise of environmentalism, on to a path of darkness and the trap of the Kyoto Protocol.

America can yet escape the forces of darkness which deal in fantasy and falsehood, into the light of a new era.

The new era has a reward waiting in the amount of hundreds of billions of dollars in energy savings.

The United States generates a total of 15.43 trillion kWh per year with fossil fuels. Coal generates 6.74 trillion kWh; gas, 5.51 trillion kWh and oil, 3.18 trillion kWh. To produce these amounts, at 2.2 cents per kilowatt hour, generation using coal costs 148.9 billion dollars per year; using natural gas, at 7.51 cents per kWh, amounts to 412.8 billion dollars per year; using oil, at 8.09 cents per kWh the cost is 256.7 billion dollars per year.

The total costs for generating U.S. demand of 15.43 trillion kWh from fossil fuels amounts to 818.7 billion dollars per year.

The price of the fossil fuels themselves adds volatility to the market, inasmuch as raw material costs fluctuate radically. For example, the cost of natural gas increased 88% from January 1999 to July 2000. The price of crude oil increased by 50% in the past several years and coal keeps up a slow but steady increase in price. From 1990 to 1999 nuclear fuel costs decreased by 46%.

By converting to atomic energy the production of 15.43 trillion kWhs per year at 1.72 cents per kWh for nuclear power would cost a total of 314 billion dollars in the entirety, with stable to decreasing raw material costs. A savings of 504.7 billion dollars per year would result.

By comparison, the Department of Defense budget for 2005 was 495.5 billion dollars. A 500 billion-dollar windfall savings could build 50 new atomic energy plants per year; balance the federal budget deficit two times over and be directed to the American household to assure substantial reductions in the home electrical bill.

None of this is possible until the day we get the far-left millstones from around our necks.


E. Ralph Hostetter, a prominent businessman and publisher, also is an award-winning columnist and Vice Chairman of the Free Congress Foundation Board of Directors. He welcomes email comments at eralphhostetter@yahoo.com.

EX-NDIP said...

Hey BC Lib . . . why not write a piece on Kyoto . . . listing all the Climate Scientists and Paleoclimatologists names and their Scientific Evidence . . . been waiting for this for years . . . you could be the first . . .
remember now . . . not what the "BElieve" just the FACTS . . . REAL SCIENTIFIC FACTS!!!
Hope I don't have to wait another decade to get them . . . .

Anonymous said...

Hey...denier trolls...go plead your cases to the scientific community. Do you actually think you're convincing anyone here of anything other than your own sheer cretinitude?

When you face the scientists, make sure you begin your arguments with "Hey, scientists...What about the cold weather in Winnipeg last week, huh?" Roll your eyes a lot and use air quotes when you say "Global Warming." That's always compelling.

Let us know how you make out.

Tom Harris said...

Good - the following quotes illustrates my point well - the debate is no longer about science or what is good for the environment, it is about ad hominem attacks and spin.

Note in the following:

"Hey...denier trolls..."

We are not trolls - we clearly identify exactly who we are and how to get hold of us, unlike most of those who attack us.

Also, we are not denying climate change is occuring - it has and always will and will continue to cause massive inconvenience and worse for humankind on occasion, which is why we advocate preparing communities to adapt to the detrimental impacts of climate change (and of course there are many good impacts to warming).

"go plead your cases to the scientific community."

Our scientists ARE part of the science community - we are pleading our case to thinking Canadians.

"Do you actually think you're convincing anyone here of anything other than your own sheer cretinitude?"

Hard to say where treasure is buried. When Prof Patterson invited me to his lab in 98 to show me the evidence, I was a believer in significant anthro CC. But his data and that of the many others he put me in touch with convinced me my stance was wrong. Maybe some people here will change their minds too if they are shown some of the science that has been hidden from the public, who knows? One can only try.

"When you face the scientists, make sure you begin your arguments with "Hey, scientists...What about the cold weather in Winnipeg last week, huh?" Roll your eyes a lot and use air quotes when you say "Global Warming." That's always compelling."

My response - just spin, which is one of the reasons I no longer work in the House of Commons (was there for seven months and found the spin too hard to stomach as an engineering professional).

Tom

Anonymous said...

Well ti-guy, You claim that there will be lots of eye-rolling when someone uses a January Winnipeg as a backdrop for a global cooling news conference. Sort of like when Messieurs Layton & Suzuki picked an usually warm December day in Toronto to bolster their case about global warming. I'm sure there was lots of eye-rolling in Moose Jaw at that day too...just couldn't tell due to the frost on their ski googles.

I thought my point was clear but perhaps only crets like me actually get sarcasm. Thing is, both news conferences are equally silly. The only difference is that the MSM tends to treat the Layton/Suzuki event as if it is actually meaningful.

As far as your recommendation to make my case to 'the scientists'. Which ones? There are equal numbers who blame climate change on human activity, attribute climate change to natural causes and others who claim the climate remains within longterm trend lines. There is even a group of scientists leftover from the 1960's and 70's who still believe in global cooling and are holding places at the Bingo table for the global warming crew when the most recent fad fades.

Anonymous said...

The troll remark wasn't addressed to you, Mr. Harris. It was addressed to the trolls.

However, this was addressed to you in a previous post here:

Mr. Harris, I submit that not only does the NRSP have "connections" to the Friends of Science, you're basically the SAME BUNCH OF PEOPLE.

Care to respond to that, finally?

Anonymous said...

Well ti-guy, You claim that there will be lots of eye-rolling when someone uses a January Winnipeg as a backdrop for a global cooling news conference.

No, I never said that. Re-read the comment.

Anonymous said...

Tom Harris needs his own blog where he can comment all he wants. His comments are boooooooringggg

Anonymous said...

anon wrote "...As far as your recommendation to make my case to 'the scientists'. Which ones? There are equal numbers who blame climate change on human activity, attribute climate change to natural causes and others who claim the climate remains within longterm trend lines. There is even a group of scientists leftover from the 1960's and 70's who still believe in global cooling and are holding places at the Bingo table for the global warming crew when the most recent fad fades..."

What a pack of lies. Provide evidence that there are "equal numbers" of climate scientists who do not believe in anthropogenic global warming.

Anonymous said...

Notice Mr. Harris not jumping in to correct the misinformation about there being "equal numbers" of scientists on both sides. Even if you disagree with the overwhelming consensus, that's a factual inaccuracy that a fair-minded expert such as himself would find intolerable, no?

Anonymous said...

Fruit fly expert David Suzuki can tell us exactly what the weather will be 100 years from now, those silly meteorologists can't tell us what it will be like next week - and they actually study that stuff for years!

All hail our new Environmentalist Overlords!

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