Thanks for your email. I too regret that Bill C-311 was defeated at second reading last week. I find it particularly disappointing because the Senate did not honour its long standing custom to debate the principle of all bills and to ensure they all go to committee (i.e., pass second reading) so we can hear from Canadians on the subject matter. However, that is a custom, not a rule. Unfortunately, a snap vote was called and the Conservatives took advantage of the fact they had more members in the Chamber that day.
Just in case you were inclined to fall for the Tory spin.
Delicious. The bill failed because not enough senators voted for it.. but I wasn't there either.
Democracy in action.
And who was it that was just itching to call a vote? Liberal Senator Grant Mitchell did not want to stand the bill, so that forced a vote on the bill's second reading. That wasn't part of any overt strategy on the part of the Tories; they merely took advantage of Liberal stupidity. Perhaps if enough Liberal Senators decided to show up to work they might have made up for that stupidity, but alas, it was not to be.
No democracy here, just the usual rightwinger anti-science, anti-reality, don't bother to find out the facts, just vote the way Master orders.
You Conservatives become more contemptible every day.
"No democracy here, just the usual rightwinger anti-science, anti-reality, don't bother to find out the facts, just vote the way Master orders."
You just gave one of the best descriptions of the Liberal Party of Canada I have ever read!
Well, after this, we all have something to say to CPC people the next time they start bitching about the senate. Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.
No democracy here, just the usual rightwinger anti-science, anti-reality, don't bother to find out the facts, just vote the way Master orders. - Holly Stick
LOL. Who can understand those progressives? Even the vote is now anti-democratic.
Anti-science? The left trots out that tired old canard because they've utterly failed to persuade, you know, democratically persuade Canadians to accept their radical AGW agenda.
And when the radical AGW crowd has a Master like the shyster Al Gore, you might want to find a new spokesperson for your cause HS.
Wish I was on a taxpayer funded junket to Cancun for the upcoming UN climate conference though, it's -26 here right now. Brrrr.
If Liberal Senators make a tactical mistake and allow a vote on a bill not supported by Conservative Senators that show up for votes "SPIN"?
Perhaps the culture of entitlement still runs deep within the Liberal party as they feel they are not required to show up for work/votes.
When Liberal Senators were blocking NAFTA and GST did the media refer to them as unelected or undemocratic? Anyone remember the NDP joining Mulroney in protest about those undemocratic Liberal Senators and the will of parliament?
I do give credit to the whining levels of the alarmists. The mobsters have made a huge profit from feed it tariffs.
It looks like seniors and working families are going to pay higher rates of hydro so large energy companies can reap profits in the solar and wind racket in Ontario.
It is a shame Liberals are not concerned with trampling the rights of cities to block these industrial projects in the rural ridings.
Who knows what the Arctic is doing Holly Stick? You sure don't.
melting/freezing . . . you "science" types ascribe everything to global warming.
C-311 is dead and Canadians don't give a hoot, that is how little public support AGW zealots have.
The scientists know, Paul Stupid:
"...While 2009 showed a slowdown in the rate of annual air temperature increases in the Arctic, the first half of 2010 shows a near record pace with monthly anomalies of over 4°C in northern Canada. There continues to be significant excess heat storage in the Arctic Ocean at the end of summer due to continued near-record sea ice loss. There is evidence that the effect of higher air temperatures in the lower Arctic atmosphere in fall is contributing to changes in the atmospheric circulation in both the Arctic and northern mid-latitudes. Winter 2009-2010 showed a new connectivity between mid-latitude extreme cold and snowy weather events and changes in the wind patterns of the Arctic; the so-called Warm Arctic-Cold Continents pattern..."
And your point is Holly Stick??
Um, pardon me, but despite the fact that Conservative senators are claiming the vote was called by Grant Mitchell, I am pretty sure that is disputed by Mr. Mitchell. I thought Labreton said it had something to do with the fact two liberal senators jumped to their feet?
Even if she is correct, it would clearly be an accident (and not a "tactical" error as some people might try to claim n their desperate attempt to make this into something it is not). How does that actually excuse the unelected unaccountable conservative senators for defeating a bill that was passed by the elected, accountable Members of Parliament? Oh yeah, that's right - it doesn't.
Anyone who has ever supported Harper's senate reforms and cried and wailed at the very suggestion liberal senators were blocking his crime bills cannot possibly support what happened in the senate and not be utter hypocrites - which pretty much sums up the core Harper supporters, so I guess I am not surprised.
ha ha ha ha ha
"When Liberal Senators were blocking NAFTA and GST did the media refer to them as unelected or undemocratic?"
Oh dear lord. how old are you?
Harper is the one who started referring to the senate as unelected and unaccountable. The media picked up on HIS schtick - and immediately dropped it when it became a conservative dominated unelected undemocratic senate. If the media are now pointing out the conservative dominated senate is unelected and undemocratic Harper has only himself and his shameless hypocrisy to blame.
ha ha ha
GST and NAFTA? What are these things that Liberal senators defeated, thus altering the course of history and ensuring that I would be completely unfamiliar with these accronyms.
Do they have anything to do with "feed it tarrifs"?
"Even the vote is now anti-democratic."
No, Dumstrum. The democratic vote was the one that saw the majority of MPs whom represent a majority of Canadians, pass the bill.
Despite the impression you've gotten, cloistered as you are amongst the drooling slackwits of Taliberta, most Canadians accept science and want Global warming addressed.
Gayle (resident apologist non Liberal),
Liberals screwed up tax funded abortion vote for the Congo this summer and the whip got replaced.
Feel free to blame the CPC for missing Liberals too.
Ignatieff followed up on CBC apologized for his bad day at the office to George.
Are you married to the Joker you seem to finish all your posts with laughter?
or it the fact you don't vote Liberal and a recent poll of supporters find 59% of Liberals think Ignatieff must go now?
Laverne aka Gayle may support the need to increase the hydro rates to pay Energy companies inflated hydro rates well above the market price for 20 years. Both of you may be part of your organized crime racket making millions on FIT's but the working families can't afford the 46% increase planned by the Liberals in Ontario.
The examples in Spain, Denmark and Germany are clear. Job losses and no decrease in the use of fossil fuel.
Socialists are free to send your money to the Mugabe's to buy Windmills.
Science is not settled that Giant Fans make for nicer dictators. Give my best to Castro.
Tax funded windmills and abortions in the Congo: what's next a free Unicorn for every child?
Oh look. In a desperate attempt to pretend his argument did not get slapped down with hardly any effort on my part CS is trying to change the subject. What. A. Surprise.
Don't ever change CS. You're always good for a laugh or two.
Ha ha ha
I live in the real world. Pay attention to the ballot results.
This is only the beginning. The welfare state is coming to an end.
Buck up you and Holly can move to a cave grow hemp and use those solar panels to podcast your witty rebuttals.
All of which has what to do with the fact Harper is saying one thing about the senate and doing quite another?
Oh yeah, nothing. Nothing at all.
Ha ha ha
From what I can gather from reading Kady O'Malley's Inside Politics liveblog of Question Period in the Senate on Nov 17th following the vote on Bill C 311, Senator Mitchell flatly denies demanding a vote, and the audio and written Hansard records differ as to who actually initiated the vote.
Senator Mitchell claims he wanted to move the bill to committee for debate, which was why he didn't agree to stand the bill. What exactly happened after that is in dispute and the Senate Speaker is going to check out discrepancies in the record.
I do wonder why Senator Mitchell tried to move this bill forward to committee when so many Liberal Senators were absent, and their support was crucial.
I agree Gayle, the Cons took advantage of the situation in a sneaky, underhanded manner, but the Libs seem to have be strangely incompetent in handling the matter.
We are all losers with the defeat of this bill. It appears that our government, through Libs incompetence and Cons trickery, missed a great opportunity to set targets for controlling GHG emissions. Climate change is a reality, despite the refusal of deniers to accept the science.
Wait a minute. The issue here is whether an unelected unaccountable body should ever defeat the will of the elected chamber. Harper has repeatedly said it should not.
Liberal "incompetence" is not an issue. It is a red herring. Should the Senate always assume Harper and his party are completely unprincipled? Is that how our government should operate?
No, that is absolutely not the way our government should operate, but if the Liberals are ever to defeat Harper, and Canada is ever to get any meaningful climate change legislation, then it has to be realized that the Cons will use every dirty trick in the book to help their big oil buddies. Witness the extensive pro Tar Sands lobbying they are presently undertaking in the U.S. and Europe as documented on Greenpeace.ca.
ha ha ha
"it has to be realized that the Cons will use every dirty trick in the book to help their big oil buddies."
Perhaps, but it is hardly incompetence for liberal senators to believe Harper would not allow his senators to defeat legislation. At the end of the day that hurts Harper politically, which he is far more concerned about than anything else.
Gene - very nice.
IMO Harper and the Cons have made great political gains by killing Bill C 311, as one of their main objectives is to undermine climate change policies in Canada and elsewhere. I believe they will use any means to achieve this goal and they care little about the consequences to the environment and the rest of humanity.
Perhaps the word "incompetence" was too harsh, and I should have referred to a lack of preparedness on the Liberals part to deal with the Cons underhanded, undemocratic tactics.
It is very hard to accept the defeat of this bill, and it is very frustrating that there is conflicting information about who called for the vote.
Liberals describe the decision by Conservative Senators as sneaky, dirty tricks, undemocratic and give Liberal Senators a free pass when they act the same way.
Another reason why voters reject the destructive politics of Liberals and their revisionists.
Many of us recognize Liberals paid lip service on the environment for 13 years.
In a stunt Grant Mitchell sponsored a reckless private members bill from the NDP.
The Liberals should proceed with the merger with the NDP as they have adopted many policies of the fourth party.
Nothing left but a shell of nostalgic MPs who refer to the glory days of P.E.T-J.C. and their welfare state.
Uh oh someone Canadiansensed the thread!!!!
Patsy's called Klic on some other blogs for her spaminess
Oh look, CS is missing the point again.
Not that I blame him. When you spend your days talking about how great and wonderful your leader is, and then he goes and betrays his base in such a spectacular fashion, it is much easier to simply pretend this is about liberals. Only honest and intelligent people can acknowledge when they are being hypocritical. Clearly that is too much to ask of CS.
ha ha ha
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